TR4/4A Making a '65 TR4 Run Awesome. Misfire, Ignition Tune Up, Carb Rebuilds. Help?

My father and I pulled this 1965 TR4 out of a car port. It was in solid shape but after getting it home I noticed it had been hacked by the previous owners over the years. My goal with this car is to turn it into a nice driver. After fixing a hole in the steel dash and going through all the wiring and getting everything working it seemed to run pretty good with zero attention to the engine systems. I drove it around for 2 months like this. It did have an occasional miss under load and high rpms but when I got off the gas it stopped. I guessed it might be the debris in the glass filter running the bowls out of fuel or the points. Then one hot day it went to crap quick. Misfire, no fire then dead. Before this I had sanded and adjusted the points with no change, still occasional miss under load and high rpms.

So now I'm going to go through each system one thing at a time. Carbs, lines, pump, filter, tank. Then ignition system replacing the points, condenser, coil and setting timing. I'm guessing all of this needed to be done since I have no idea how long this car sat before the two or three years it sat my shop. Hopefully I will have eliminated the problem. The car runs amazing other than this miss.

The car


I've been doing a ton of research on rebuilding the carbs. The 175CD Strombergs are pretty simple. I just need to know the super secret pitfalls and things beyond the basic gasket rebuild that could give me tuning problems down the road. I've already disassembled one and was surprised how tight, clean and simple it is. I'll be getting rebuilds from Joe Curto or the like. Any suggestions of where to get the carb kits, points, condenser, coil and fuel pump or fuel pump rebuilds and fuel filter rebuilds. I'll be posting my progress and questions here as I progress through each task. Subscribe and participate! Thanks guys!

Call Joe and offer to send him a picture because there are different versions of the 175 CD carbs.
Tell him you want EVERYTNING needed to rebuild those particular carbs.. Then just do a good job putting the carbs, cleaned and polished, back together; then set the adjustments as best you can.
Set the timing with the new components and then go try it out.

Jeep, on the CD175 you have it is really a good one. Your biggest problem will be the centering of the jets, so the needle does not touch on any side. You will have to loosen and tighten the jet adjustment a bunch. The first setting for both should be even with the venture bushing, then screwed down 1 and one half turns. That should be in the neighborhood, then you can start lifting the piston a 1/8 inch or so. If reeves up, go up a quarter turn and try again. If nothing happens you are real close and only driving and checking the plugs will you know if it's a little lean or rich.

Wayne

jeep937 said:

Any suggestions of where to get the carb kits, points, condenser, coil and fuel pump or fuel pump rebuilds and fuel filter rebuilds.

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There are lots of sources, the "Big Three" are Moss, TRF and VB.
https://www.mossmotors.com/
https://www.the-roadster-factory.com/indexmain.php
https://www.victoriabritish.com/

My personal preference is TRF; but they are a little strange to deal with. They don't publish a full catalog of their own (for the TR4). Instead, you look up the original factory part number and then order that. They'll sell you a paper reprint, or you can download a PDF file here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2...OTc4LWE3MmEtMmRiODI3OTliY2Y4/edit?usp=sharing

Their fuel pump rebuild kit is quite a bit more expensive than the others (like double), but is also substantially higher quality IMO with a brass (not plastic) screen, nitrile bowl seal and the elusive oil seal that others leave out.


You might find this helpful, too.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2...YWExLWIyNjctOTYzNmI3OTg2ODM0/edit?usp=sharing

The carb rebuild is pretty easy, everything should just go back together the same way it came apart, make sure you get the throttle plates properly centered so that they can be closed all the way without sticking, otherwise it will be hard to adjust your idle, make sure you don't tear the diaphragm, the big rubber bit, when you put the tips back on the carb. Check to make sure the throttle shafts aren't worn with excessive play. Google these: Full line parts suppliers are The Roadster Factory, Moss, and Victoria British, Roadster factory often gives you more description of whether the part is the OEM spec or just fits and works. British Parts Northwest has mechanical bits at good prices, Burlen Fuel Systems has carb bits from England, but you can get most of what you need here.

Edit: Randall, you beat me to it!

You referred to the miss you had, I had a similar problem that turned out to be a bad coil. But that is just one more potential reason.
Charley

I recommend Joe Curto too - especially on calling him. I rebuilt the same set of carbs you have for my TR4 using Joe's rebuild kits and they've been running great for 2 years now.

Joe can rebush the carb bodies and install the butterfly valves - best thing I did as this is the wear point on the carbs and you won't get a good idle otherwise. TR4s have very simple carbs you'll have no trouble rebuilding them.

Edit: forgot to add you don't need to rebush unless you see some play in the throttle shafts - Joe's rebush service doesn't cost near as much as having him do a full rebuild and he can turn around the work quickly - worked that way for me anyway.

Several months back I had what sounds like a similar issue with a misfire on my TR4A. Car had been running great till one morning when cranked up seemed to have what you described as a misfire. I wiggled all the wires and on one wiggle it cleared (please forgive my "girl" description). Turns out I had a bad wire connection on that plug. Had it fixed and no more misfire.

Cheers,
Irene

And as Irene commented about her loose wire being the culprit for a miss, long ago I also had a miss that would make itself known under load and was worse in hot (read humid) weather. A very small crack in the distributor cap was cause.

Thanks for the awesome posts everyone. So I have been busy the past few days pulling this out of a barn. When I order my carb stuff I guess I'm gonna try to get the stuff for this also..

A Series 2 2+2 (possibly a 1970?) that has been converted to triple SUs (would have had dual Strombergs originally). That should keep you busy for awhile.

jeep937 said:

...When I order my carb stuff I guess I'm gonna try to get the stuff for this also...

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I expect you'll find there isn't much overlap in parts suppliers for TR4s and E-Types.

Why can't I find a barn like that?

All the ones around here are filled with hay and not British cars.

Scott

Alright, I ordered carb kits for the TR4 and E Type from Joe Curto. Good stuff. I called The Roadster Factory and ordered a cap, rotor, points, condenser and coil. I wanted the fuel pump kit but my pump says "Made in Canada" on it and he said he wasn't sure the kit would work. What do we know about this made in canada pump? I asked for an original but it was like 200 bucks. Where can I get a kit for this or just get another one?

I used one of those Canadian pumps for many years -- as I recall the innards are identical, i.e. a standard rebuild kit should work.

jeep937 said:

...I asked for an original but it was like 200 bucks.

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Moss sells a nice repro that has the correct priming lever for $42.95:

Moss p/n 377-000

If you "sanded" the points....replace them. Unless you used 1000 grit of finer and sprayed them out with Brakleen afterwards.
I have an old, very thing, very flexible point file...all I use. If they are pitted bad enough for anything more, replace them, and the condensor that causes pitting on one side.
Springs get weak...especially if you forgot to turn off the ignition while working on it. Heats up the spring badly (caries all the primary power) and the spring tension is gone.
On power to the coil.....use a voltmeter. Determine if your car uses a ballast ignition dropping resistor. If not, while running, power to the coil should be exactly the same as battery voltage.
Easy test is to measure hot side of coil primary and battery hot post. Look for voltage differences there.
Coil wire pulled from cap, held 1/2" from head, have someone crank it, moving the wire closer until you can see how much spark there is.
Pull the plugs.
Are they wet or dry?
What colour?
90% of carb problems are ignition, 90% of ignition problems are carbs...or some such.
Plugs will tell you.
Wet, either flooding, and you should have some external indication, like overflow, leaks, or smell.
Hold a removed plug AWAY from the car and hold your operating Zippo under the wet end. See if it burns. Gas.
Me?
Points, condensor, rotor, plugs, fuel filter, inspect cap, ohm all plug wires, see if it goes and check power to coil, then spark at head. You're gonna need all those bits anyway with garbage in the filter bowl (I have a filter bowl on all three old cars I drive, and a filter that fits inside).
Look closely along the fuel line to see if there is another filter in line somewhere.
Hackers do all sorts of stuff. Had one years ago with TWO additional (plugged) filters cut into the lines. Rear one covered in so much carp almost couldn't find it.
Rotted rubber hoses in fuel line. Replace them just because.

Awesome post man. Thank you so much for all that info. Can't wait to hammer this all out.

Geo Hahn said:

I used one of those Canadian pumps for many years -- as I recall the innards are identical, i.e. a standard rebuild kit should work.

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I agree. I'd probably buy the kit and then, if it doesn't fit, look for an original pump to rebuild with the kit. Or just pick up that repro from Moss and be done with it.

If you do rebuild the Canadian pump, pay attention to how the pivot pin is retained in the body. There were some reproduction pumps that just had the body staked to hold the pin in place, and they have been known to have the pin work loose with disastrous results.

I just looked at my Canadian pump (still saving it on the parts shelf, no idea why) and it has the pressed in pin.

I cannot recall if this was the pump where the pin fell out or the one where a check valve fell out -- anyway, I replaced it with an AC priming lever pump.

I ordered the Canadian pump but man I really want that AC pump now..

I got my carb kits from Joe Curto. He also had the Jag E Type kits. I picked up a ultrasonic cleaner from HF with the 25% off and it worked great. I am super impressed with the kits. I knocked one down. It appeares to have cracked floats so I'm not going to button it up 'til I get some new ones. Also I could not find a place for the two pieces on the yellow diagram paper. One is a copper washer/spacer which appears to be the same size at the aluminum piece that goes on top of the jet assembly. The other is a larger "paper" gasket which didn't seem to fit anywhere. Any ideas fellas. I also haven't assemble the needle and seat yet and it seems to have 3 round gasket/pieces in the bag and I can only think of one place for one of them, under the face when screwing it in the carb body..