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Suspension Modifications to improve Handling and Roadability?

RAC68

Darth Vader
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BoyRacer (Rich Mayer) is looking for street tires to handle his aggressive driving style and some very good tires have been mentioned. However, are the performance tires mentioned too much tire for our Healey suspensions?

What modifications to Healey suspensions would allow them to take better advantage of a high performance or competition tire to deliver improve handling and roadability?

I appreciate we have somewhat covered this topic as part of other topics but I don’t believe as a specific.

Ray (64BJ8P1)

 

DerekJ

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If you stick to a 185 tyre and a max 5.5 width rim then there shouldn't be problems with the standard suspension set. For what its worth the mods on my car are negative camber adjustment, 7/8th anti-roll bar and front suspension lowered by about an inch.
 

John Turney

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I have the same mods as Derek with the addition of tramp bars to keep from breaking off the rear universal grease fitting.
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

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Hi All and thanks for the responses.

There were postings past describing such modifications as placing gussets around the shock towers and welding a plate to close the outer side of the motor mount. These were mentioned as ways of stiffening the structure. Has anyone done these to help handling?

Additionally, the Frame Man indicated moving the rear spring front mounts of pre-BJ8P2 Healeys inboard ½” and a few indicated the installation of adjustable shock mounts to change camber. Has anyone performed these modifications and how have they improved roadability?

DerekJ, you mentioned lowering the front suspension of your Healey 1”. What improvement did that modification produce and how did you do it? Did you do anything to protect the oil pan?

There are many handling modifications mentioned in passing but only in passing.

Looking back to the original Dunlop RS5s, although they broke easily and wore out fast, I had the most fun with those tires and the suspension seemed to feel as though it was tuned for them.

All the best,
Ray (64 BJ8P1)
 

steveg

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What modifications to Healey suspensions would allow them to take better advantage of a high performance or competition tire to deliver improve handling and roadability?

Seems like a contradiction between improved absolute handling and roadability.

'Roadability' would seem to indicate the driving experience on the road. Lowering the front suspension and low-profile tires would improve cornering but would make the car scrape even more in ordinary driving. Are you interested in absolute handling or imroved road driving?

Here's my pitch for the road car: 180 Longstone or Coker XASs with 5.5" or 6" wheels, Tom's camber plates or offset upper trunnion bushings, 3/4" front sway bar, needle-bearing kingpins, Putzke shocks all around, overhauled or Welch steering, 3.54 rear axle; Randy Forbes' triangle axle locator bar. I'm not in favor of the tramp bars or Putzke shock-tramp bars as they require side exhaust -- imho a non-starter for a road car.

The combo of 180 tires with Putzke shocks improves the ground clearance and the ride noticeably.

PS - I'm running SPAX shocks and don't consider the ride as good as Putzke's Bilsteins.

My FWIW.
 

Bob_Spidell

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Ditto on the 3/4" front sway bar. Be sure to upgrade the links; the stock ones won't take the stress (I got an Addco bar and links from Summit, IIRC). Made a noticeable difference--car stays flat(ter) in corners.

I've had urethane bushings off and on over the years (currently on). They definitely stiffen the suspension but there are downsides: additional stress on brackets and other suspension parts, squeaks and groans and possible fracturing of the bushes (never happened to me).

My BJ8 had excessive pos. camber; alignment brought it back to nominal (1deg pos.). This improved turn-in.

I have 185/70 Vredesteins on 6" Dayton rims. Steering is heavy, but Torrington king pin bearings help somewhat.
 

BoyRacer

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The six most important mods that you can make to a street Healey to make it handle better are, in order of importance:
1. Upgrade your front springs to BJ8 springs
2. Upgrade your anti-roll (sway bar) bar to 3/4"
3. Upgrade your tires
4. Install traction (anti-tramp) bars
5. Modify/adjust your camber setting to neutral. This can be done in many ways. The shocks arms can be bent. Wedges can be installed under the outer mounting bolts of the shocks. Offset upper trunnion bushings can be installed. You can open up the inside flap on the shock tower mount, drive off the captive nuts and replace it with a plate with tapped holes that can be moved in or out to achieve the desired neutral camber setting.......or a bit negative if you are doing some auto crossing (also called solo).
6 Lighten the front end of your Healey, for example; aluminum radiator, aluminum head, lightweight alternator, aluminum bonnet....better yet, all of them
 

steveg

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The six most important mods that you can make to a street Healey to make it handle better are, in order of importance:
1. Upgrade your front springs to BJ8 springs
2. Upgrade your anti-roll (sway bar) bar to 3/4"
3. Upgrade your tires
4. Install traction (anti-tramp) bars
5. Modify/adjust your camber setting to neutral. This can be done in many ways. The shocks arms can be bent. Wedges can be installed under the outer mounting bolts of the shocks. Offset upper trunnion bushings can be installed. You can open up the inside flap on the shock tower mount, drive off the captive nuts and replace it with a plate with tapped holes that can be moved in or out to achieve the desired neutral camber setting.......or a bit negative if you are doing some auto crossing (also called solo).
6 Lighten the front end of your Healey, for example; aluminum radiator, aluminum head, lightweight alternator, aluminum bonnet....better yet, all of them

Richard,
I'm not quite up to speed on this: can you explain why the BJ8 front springs are an improvement?
 

DerekJ

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Ray.

A big Healey in standard form has a tendency to understeer and the front to roll more than you want under heavy cornering. We are talking about 'brisk' driving here. I think if people are just driving around normally in their cars then the standard set up is Ok. As the front suspension is independent with coil springs then it needs controlling. Thicker sway bar and 'shorter springs' will help to do this. Negative camber will get your outside tyre flatter to the floor giving more grip. Lowering the suspension, giving a shorter spring effect, is pretty simple and you can buy a kit to do it. Only costs about $30 from DWR but I'm sure they are readily available over your side.

Negative camber isn't necessary for a normal road car. (You probably wouldn't want it). Fitting sliding top plates to adjust the camber is a big job but if you really wanted negative, then you can install offset bushings as described by Richard above.

Anti tramp bars stop the nose of the diff rearing up and bending the springs into an amazing S -shape under heavy acceleration. They help control this but don't eliminate it. The Dutch Healey racers put a video camera under the rear wheel arch and filmed the incredible twisting of the springs on the race track. It's on You-tube somewhere but I've lost the link. Over here the regs for most Healey competition classes don't allow the fitting of anti-tramp bars if the car did not originally have them, and only the BJ8 did.
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

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Thanks ALL,

The changes and explanations are very much appreciated and help many of us better understand. I have also read the articles and forum threads referenced and found quite a correction in some of my perspectives.

Steve, I see your point on roadability and stand corrected. From my understanding, roadability was referenced in the context of how the handling changes worked and improved driving on the road as apposed to the track.

I have always found driving my Healey seems to transform my driving practices and stimulate a more aggressive me. It is not possible to drive down a super highway in a Healey at 60 mph when a Honda or Toyota sedan passes at an average 75 mph. However, although my Healey is, for the most part, originally equipped and well maintained, driving over 50 mph requires Constant Steering Adjustment and cruising at speed is not that enjoyable (at least to me). However, I still like driving my Healey over a very twisting mountain road at good speed even after age has caused the lost my most of my youthful invulnerability perspective.

I was looking to understand what handling modifications have been implemented by those who really push their Healeys so I might be able to improve my driving experience with some subset of the presented modifications and maybe extend upon my total Healey experience.

Again, Thanks All for your responses and explanations,

Ray (64BJ8P1)
 

BoyRacer

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Steveg,
BJ8 front coil springs are an improvement because they are stiffer then the earlier springs. Stiffer springs compress less and therefore limit body roll. Less body roll translates into better handling.
Richard
 

steveg

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Seems like a contradiction between improved absolute handling and roadability.

'Roadability' would seem to indicate the driving experience on the road. Lowering the front suspension and low-profile tires would improve cornering but would make the car scrape even more in ordinary driving. Are you interested in absolute handling or imroved road driving?

Here's my pitch for the road car: 180 Longstone or Coker XASs with 5.5" or 6" wheels, Tom's camber plates or offset upper trunnion bushings, 3/4" front sway bar, needle-bearing kingpins, Putzke shocks all around, overhauled or Welch steering, 3.54 rear axle; Randy Forbes' triangle axle locator bar. I'm not in favor of the tramp bars or Putzke shock-tramp bars as they require side exhaust -- imho a non-starter for a road car.

The combo of 180 tires with Putzke shocks improves the ground clearance and the ride noticeably.

PS - I'm running SPAX shocks and don't consider the ride as good as Putzke's Bilsteins.

My FWIW.

Correction to the above: Udo informs me his axle tramp kit does not require side exhaust.
 

Legal Bill

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Ray,

I'm just curious about the "roadability" aspect of your question. Many suspension mods will make the ride quality harsher/stiffer. Did you want to know about that as well, or are you just concerned about improved handling?
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

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Hi Bill,

I would rather drive the Healey over a 911 Carrera. First, in a Healey doesn’t feel as though I you are sitting on a skate board. I can also be satisfied driving at 60 mph as the Healey’s sounds (air and exhaust) along with driving involvement (the constant steering corrections) make you feel you are doing 120 mph. However, to me, roadability involves the total feel of the car and how it performs in a tight aggressive turn (as in a track run or on a mountain road) as well as how it feels going down a supper highway.

From my perspective, the Healey presents an image that requires it can, at least, keep up with a Honda sedan at normal highway speeds or around quick turns without producing excess driver stress and I believe that some combination of the modifications previously mentioned by forum members has more than achieved this...or why even think of putting better performing tires on the car if the suspension can’t take full advantage..

Maybe a little simplistic but that was my thought.

Ray (64BJ8P1)
 

Wausau 911

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I've had my BJ7 for 20 yrs and a 911 purchased a few years ago. Both are fun cars, but no true comparison can be made.
911's were / are engineered to a much higher standard going all the back to the 60's late 50's. Love them both with all there quirks.
Back on subject though, my Healey's front is lowered 1", and I read above about lowering rear 3/4". Is this worth doing and if so what are the benefits? Kits available?
 

Legal Bill

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Ray,

I'm just wondering if you care about how the car feels when it hits a bump. They already transmit road irregularities to the passengers. Most of the mods will increase that characteristic. So while you can increase handling performance and grip with all these mods, I was just wondering if you were willing to give up more ride comfort? If not, then I'd limit what I do. The wider tires and the offset shock-trunion bushings will not harm the ride quality very much. The Phase 2 front springs will make the car feel more like, well, a phase 2. What I do not know and would be very interested in learning is whether the Bilstein shocks make the rider harsher. I suspect they will, but then again the Armstron lever actions are no ride-on-a-cloud either. Bigger sway bars transmit more forces from one side of the car to the other and in my experience they can impact ride comfort as well but it can be difficult for the driver to identify the circumstances where the difference is actually "felt".

By the way, your constant steering corrections sounds wrong to me. If you have just a touch of toe-in, the car should track straight, even though our steering boxes have a good deal of on-center play even when they are "right." I have been considering a new steerinng gear from DW but I'm not sure if they are worth all the effort that goes with pulling out the steering box. I hate taking out the grill!!!
 
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