LED bulbs as side lights/stop light/flashers

I have bought some LED bulbs in both Red and White to install into a negative ground Healey, (not mine). I have also purchased 4 Resistors to go with them as I understand that whilst the side and stop lights work fine, the flashers can bleed over so that both side flash at the same time.

The resistors have two wires poking out from each end, can any one point me to a wiring diagram so I can see how the resistors are wired into the circuits.



Bob

Having plugged the question into Google, it looks as if I twist the two wires together at each end of the resistor, then one end goes to ground and the other into the live wire feeding the flasher side of the bulb.



Bob

I converted all my instrument and parking/brake lights to LEDs last year on my 60 BN7. You only need 2 resistors. One in attached to the #2 lead and the other to the #6 lead on the 8 lead unit that is attached on the interior LF fender near the radiator. One wire lead from each resistor is grounded. The #2 and #6 lead points are for the left side and right side wiring circuits. (photo). Attaching them here conceals them from around the flasher unit. I mounted each resistor on an interior strut using a twist-tie. Hope this helps. If you have problems with the flasher not working correctly after installing the resistors & LEDs, I have a solution for that, as well. My project took several long days to finally get everything working correctly.

Thanks Mert, we will see how it goes.



Bob

Hi Bob,
Did you use the same bulbs as discussed prior? If so, is there something you are doing to increase light output …Or something I could had done to diminish light output from these 1157 LEDs?

Hi Mert,
I appreciate how you have applied the resistors to the Flasher Relay terminals to apply sufficient resistance to each signal side. Did you retain the original heat-switched flasher or changed it to an electronic unit? What resistance resistor have you applied?

I have been trying to switch my signal lights to LEDs but have not been successful in gaining incandescent-equivalent or better light output from the 1157 LEDs bulbs tried. Also, my interest in using LEDs is to reduce power passing through the original Flasher Relay and to the lights to diminish demands on this older unit as much as possible. By installing resistors to bring the power requirement up to the incandescent eliminates this objective. I have tried replacing the original heat-switched flasher with an electronic unit and still have not been able to make the LED signals perform correctly. At this point, I would like to install the same resistors you have secured in the manor you have described to make sure I am not doing something inadvertently that has caused my attempts to fail.

Thanks again,
Ray (64BJ8P1)

I originally used Superbright LEDs along with the FL-3 flasher. The initial set up failed. Then bought non-polarized LEDs. That didn't work either. Got the flashers to work, but the instrument panel flasher blub blinked like crazy. Also, sometimes I had no rear light or front light. I worked on this project for over 6 months. Trying different types of flasher units. The FL-3 would not work for me. At the same time I was replacing all instrument panel bulbs with LEDs. In frustration I located a manufacturer in Oregon. Classic Auto LEDs, LLC. Steve was my saving grace. I bought his products; personally talked to him on several occasions. Finally - everything worked to include all the dash LEDs. The correct Load Resistor is a RL-650 6 ohm 50 watt. As for the flasher, Negative ground cars can use an electronic or electromechanical flasher. Positive ground cars MUST used an electromechanical flasher. Electromechanical Flasher : Tridon EL12 (2 pin) or Tridon EL13 (3 pin). Electronic Flasher : CEC Industries EF32 or EF33 OR Bussmann 232 or 233. I bought the Tridon EL13 at Auto Zone. I have 2 sets of Amber and Red non-polar & polar leds; 2 load resistors; and 1 FL-3 flasher now in the parts bin. Hope this helps... Mert

While I don't consider myself an expert on Led's, I have installed all turn,stop and park lamps to LED as well as all dash lamps. I purchased everything from Superbright and as in an earlier post I had some problems. Actually all worked fine until I replaced bulbs in the dash flasher indicators and then all 4 turn signals flashed at the same time. I called Superbright and talked to their tech guy and he offered no solution. On a whim I decided to order 2 RL-650 tail light resister kits @ $4.95 ea with $2.99 USPS shipping. I installed one resister to each side in the trunk since the resisters generate heat and wiring is simple here. One wire to ground and one wire to turn signal. Instructions with kits are simple. Once connected, all lights function correctly. Superbright should mention on the website that you not only need the correct flasher, but a resister kit for each side. I also installed LED's in my 52 Chevy p/u street rod after the 67 BJ8 and experienced problems. Adding resisters solved this problem. I am writing Superbright to advise them so the next won't be frustrated as I was.

Ray

Just catching up with the thread, and there is a lot of good information coming through. I am trying to increase the intensity of light, especially at the rear where the early cars have only the one lens each side to do everything.

My first purchase was for White bulbs reference 1157 BAY 15D P21/5W with 24 LED, then I read somewhere about the fact that white LED bulbs were no different in intensity in a red lens cover so I then purchased a pair of red bulbs - T25 1157 36 LED. I have not tried either yet as I am working in conjunction with a Healey restorer and he has a car with negative ground that is coming up to 'electrification' as it were, and I believe that he is using the original type flasher unit - electromechanical?. I have also purchased 4 number 25W / 10 ohm resistors to try out and was going to install one at each corner, but I can see the benefit of just having two at the relay position. We will have to see if they are big enough.



Bob

I have been trying to switch my signal lights to LEDs but have not been successful in gaining incandescent-equivalent

There is one characteristic of a led that is probably misunderstood. A led is not brighter than an incandescent bulb.

It can be brighter. It' all relative. :wink-new:

Keoke said:

I have been trying to switch my signal lights to LEDs but have not been successful in gaining incandescent-equivalent

There is one characteristic of a led that is probably misunderstood. A led is not brighter than an incandescent bulb.

Click to expand...

I understand that they can be, but it's very hard to tell which ones actually are brighter. The light output of an incandescent 1157 bulb (the ones we have in our early running light/brake/turn signals) is 402 Lumens on high (brake & turn signal) and 38 Lumens on low (running lights) at 27 Watts/ 8 Watts, respectively. Very few LED lamps have the light output specified.

Bob,

Glad to have you back on t he topic.

Keoke, I agree. Other than the necessity to use resistors and greatly diminish their conservation of power, the issue of low luminescence makes it easy to conclude that LED hold little advantage over standard 1157 incandescents. Since achieving brighter signal/brake lighting seems to be a key objective for all of us, how should we proceed?

How do we achieve a more direct viewing angle for other to SEE OUR REAR (signals)?
With the possible exception of headlights, rear brake and turn signals are considered the most critical of all external lighting. If the best and brightest angle for LED viewing is straight-on from the center of the bulb, as exemplified by the positioning of 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] brake lights, it seems reasonable to consider installing LEDs at an upward angle to a target (i.e. the equivalent of a standard sedan windshield approximately 30' behind). Even where bulbs are composed of multiple LEDs surrounding a center point, it seems that optimal viewing remains designed in to this axis and must be viewed from this position to see the brightest and most differentiated signals.

What do you think? Any ideas on angling 1157 LEDs in Phase 2s tail lights and earlier?

Ray (64BJ8P1)

Product Code: 1157-x1W-G | Stock: Various Options In Stock
Relative Intensity


Cross Reference Number
1157 (BAY15D)


70 Lumen---------------------------------??????????

Ray
I think here it is prefered to use a high visibility LED tail light rather than to try and angle the bulbs.
This method adds a light assy on to the top of the boot which eliminate the potential narrow field of view for the oncoming driver if the bulbs were angled.

Mine is mounted to my luggage rack it is a commercial light of unknown application.
I found it in a surplus store years ago it was cheap and I purchased about four of them.
This light has a diode in side forward biased the drop across the diode dimms the light so it functins as a high visibility taillight.
I added a small relay which is controlled by the brake lamp circuit that shorts out the diode and it also functions as a high visibility stop light.--BOB's Your Uncle---Keoke

Hi Keoke,

I agree that mounting an LED on an angle is not a good practice as you would like high visibility of your signals … wherever the viewer is located. However, since as I understand, LEDs are directional when it comes to optimal viewing and loose brightness and differentiation when the viewer moves away from this optimal line of site, our only alternative IMO is to choose a bulb with a large number of clustered LEDs around a center point in order to secure multiple lines.

As you have previously indicated, unless we purchase the most expensive of LED examples, I have not found a reasonably priced unit that gives equal or better lamination then the 1157 incandescent and I am beginning to conclude that this is not a practical use of time. It is true that LEDs are advantageous to many cars with signal lights better positioned or of greater size. It may be that most Healey models may not have that type of signal lighting. Also, since we are required to use resistors to lessen the impact of change, power conservation is also being lost.

I do see where internal dash LEDs and added third brake and reflector lighting would benefit from LED installations. However, since developments are taking place continuously, I intend to pursue a good solution to improve signal lighting.

Ray (64BJ8P1)

RAC68 said:

Hi Keoke,

I agree that mounting an LED on an angle is not a good practice as you would like high visibility of your signals … wherever the viewer is located. However, since as I understand, LEDs are directional when it comes to optimal viewing and loose brightness and differentiation when the viewer moves away from this optimal line of site, our only alternative IMO is to choose a bulb with a large number of clustered LEDs around a center point in order to secure multiple lines. ....

Ray (64BJ8P1)

Click to expand...

You are thinking about the traditional LED. Surface mount LEDs provide light provide uniform light over a half sphere. Some of these can have power levels of 5 Watts each. I'm sitting under a few of them in my kitchen as I write this. Now finding them in proper 1157 form ....

John,

I wasn't aware of that and will do more investigation. Keoke, is that what your example is...a surface mount?

Ray (64BJ8P1)

RAC68 said:

John,

I wasn't aware of that and will do more investigation. Keoke, is that what your example is...a surface mount?

Ray (64BJ8P1)

Click to expand...

Mine is an automotive light assy that is about 8" wide and 2" high. It contains multiple leds and puts out good light.
However, clustered LED lamps of the 1157 configuration can cost $13,00 or more each.

Philips and Cree are the two best manufactures of high output LEDs. I used 2 single Luxeon 3 LEDs as brake lights on my motorcycle. The red ones had about 140 lumens each and a 120 degree viewing angle. The newer Luxeons don't require as much of a heat sink. If you buy Luxeons directly from Philips, they are either components or surface mount.

At present, I have not found an LED at a reasonable price that seems to match the output profile that comes close that of a standard 1157 incandescent. To make the problem more difficult, all Healey’s prior to the Phase 2 BJ8 use a small beehive lens with cramped space to fit a non-standard bulb. Add to these restrictions is the rather close to the ground placement of the light which requires viewers in following cars to see the signal at a lower-then-standard angle, and you have a simple task that just seems to grow in complexity.

Incandescent 1157 Lumens Outputs
For comparison, the standard incandescent light outputs High - 402 Lumens and Low - 38 Lumens. When viewing the output of the Type-typical LEDs, I would expect the wattage to be much less but not the lumens. So, what are the lumen profiles of some of the LEDs considered?

Note: The LEDs viewed for comparison are White 1157 replacements expected to fit within a rear Healey beehive lens.

Non-Surface Mount LEDs – Reasonable Price, Low Output



When evaluating the specifications for the 24LED (18 forward, 6 surrounding) 1157s found by Bob Hughes and test-installed by me, its published output at High is 45 Lumens and at Low registers 15 Lumens. When compared against the standard incandescent, only when viewed on its primary viewing axis will it appear bright and level differentiating.


Surface Mount LEDs – High Cost, Marginal Output (so far)



I have looked at some surface mount 1157s but, of the clustered units, most that will fit the confines of the lens have very few center mounted LEDs (6-9) with the larger percentage of incorporated sources circling the outside.

These surface mount LED bulbs comprise 45 SM LEDs, with 9 forward and 36 encircling. These bulbs produce a High output of 220 Lumens with a Low of 55 Lumens. It should be considered that since only 9 LEDs face backward, it seems reasonable to anticipate that a small percentage of brightness and level differentiation will be presented to the following driver.

I am still not convinced we have found the best LED replacement for our standard 1157s at any price and hope to find brighter, less expensive units. Until then, I will keep my original low tech bulbs and use my LEDs in my modified reflectors.

Ray (64BJ8P1)