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Starting Problem Ignition coil? Dist. Cap?

Mowgli81

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I'll try to be as complete and concise as possible. BJ8 sat for about a year (prior to this was able to start just fine). Went to restart not even turning over. Found out a bad cell in battery was to blame. New Battery - cranks just fine now. But when cranking the engine doesn't even try to start. So here is what I have done in the way of trouble shooting. Fuel pump working fine. Tried putting a induction timing light on spark plug line to see if I was getting spark. (timing light did not fire) So at this point I think it is my ignition coil. So I put a small tester light on coil and it is flashing (while cranking) so I know the points are working (my understanding) I then ohmed it out to see if there was an open. Everything seemed fine. Then I pulled each spark plug 1 by 1 suspended it above engine, and cranked the engine to see if there was actually a spark - there was albeit very small but I'm not sure if that matters. All but one fired (it wasn't the spark plug as I tested the spark plug and it fired on another dist. line.)
The Coil seemed to get very hot sitting there and with minimal cranking (not sure if normal).

Summary - Fuel pump working, plugs firing bar 1, using a firing spark plug line it wasn't enough to fire timing light, Coil seemed to test and ohm fine but hot. not even a hint of firing up.

My guess right now is that the coil is sparking but not enough to run the car but...

Here are some ?'s I have
1) Can a bad battery cell cause any damage pertaining to my situation.
2) What is the proper spark plug gap for a BJ8 MKIII Inline-6?
3) Can the coil be bad and still generate a spark?
4) Does anyone have any other tests I should try on coil or dist.?
5) Could this be something the dist is causing? bad lines? or capacitor? (thinking no until I rule out the ignition coil)
6) What is the best Manual (comparable to Chilton's) for this car.

If you need clarification or Ohm readings please let me know.
Thank you to the supporters and experts here as I would be lost with out you all. GG
 

NutmegCT

Great Pumpkin
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Greg - here are my thoughts:

1) Can a bad battery cell cause any damage pertaining to my situation. Not likely - but constant attempts at starting might.
2) What is the proper spark plug gap for a BJ8 MKIII Inline-6? Should be in the owner's manual.
3) Can the coil be bad and still generate a spark? Definitely. Easy to replace - just put in a known good coil.
4) Does anyone have any other tests I should try on coil or dist.? Just replace it. And the condenser.
5) Could this be something the dist is causing? bad lines? or capacitor? (thinking no until I rule out the ignition coil) Probably not if you're getting a spark.
6) What is the best Manual (comparable to Chilton's) for this car. Sorry - I'm not an AH owner (sadly)

By the way, it's normal for a coil to get hot when the ignition is on, but the engine isn't turning. (never "discharges")

Tom

 
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Mowgli81

Mowgli81

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Thanks NutmegCT. Appreciate the quick feedback.
 
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Mowgli81

Mowgli81

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By Bad what do you mean. I pulled the dist cap and the rotor seemed to be turning properly during crank. There didnt seem to be any carbon or burns on the rotor or inside the cap.
 
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Mowgli81

Mowgli81

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Follow up questions. Have not delt much with ignition coils. When replacing the local autostore didn't have a cross reference for the LUCAS sport coil that is currently in the car. I only see the one in the Moss mag for austin-healey.
1) How specific are these is it just size and # connections or more?
a) If specific like volts or ohms how close do I have to get?
2) My understanding is that there are 3ohm and 1.5ohm coils. I tested mine and it is reading 6ohm from the + to - terminals with leads disconnected. Could this also point to the Coil being bad?
3) Anyone know what the Lucas Sport coil is supposed to be 3ohm or 1.5ohm?
 
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57_BN4

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any coil with 3 ohms will do. Plenty of generic replacement ones at parts stores although not all will fit the bracket so maybe take the old one and match up.

1.5 ohms will work too but you have to run a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in series. Never heard of a 6 ohm coil. Andy.
 
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Mowgli81

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Thanks Everyone.
@57BN4 Yeah I don't think it is supposed to be 6ohm that's why I think it may be causing a problem. Will let you know what I come up with after replacing the coil.
Stay tuned...
 

Patrick67BJ8

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any coil with 3 ohms will do. Plenty of generic replacement ones at parts stores although not all will fit the bracket so maybe take the old one and match up.

1.5 ohms will work too but you have to run a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in series. Never heard of a 6 ohm coil. Andy.
I went with a Bosch Blue Coil as recommended by Jeff at Advance Distributors. There are different materials used on the insides of the Coils and it depends on which country made it as to what you get. He has fast service also.
 

richberman

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Check your engine ground strap too. Bad ground from distributor can overheat coil too. Also check the ground wire from points to distributor body is good and white wire from Dizzy to coil is ok. If you overtighten the nut on the dizzy body (white wire) you can twist and break the inside ground wire..ask how I know.
rich
 
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How old was the gasoline__a year+ too? I'd put fresh gas in before you try again.

After sitting so long, there may be additional fuel related problems, but you can deal with them after getting the electricals worked through...

Breaker points will develop a film across them (even new unused sets) so I'd recommend cleaning them good; file and reset too.

I settled for the Bosch blue coil without requiring a resistor when I still used a points-type ignition; they're a solid choice.

You can verify the integrity of the plug wires with your Ohm meter; they should all produce similar values. Solid (copper wire) have almost no resistance, while carbon-core read significantly higher. Not unusual for the terminations to deteriorate over time (corrosion leads to high resistance, which in turn leads to high heat__you know the drill).

Edit: I didn't see Rich's post above until mine was submitted; ALL good points! Rich, you've sure come a long way in a relatively short time__I should be able to retire soon :cheers:
 

richberman

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How old was the gasoline__a year+ too? I'd put fresh gas in before you try again.

After sitting so long, there may be additional fuel related problems, but you can deal with them after getting the electricals worked through...

Breaker points will develop a film across them (even new unused sets) so I'd recommend cleaning them good; file and reset too.

I settled for the Bosch blue coil without requiring a resistor when I still used a points-type ignition; they're a solid choice.

You can verify the integrity of the plug wires with your Ohm meter; they should all produce similar values. Solid (copper wire) have almost no resistance, while carbon-core read significantly higher. Not unusual for the terminations to deteriorate over time (corrosion leads to high resistance, which in turn leads to high heat__you know the drill).

Edit: I didn't see Rich's post above until mine was submitted; ALL good points! Rich, you've sure come a long way in a relatively short time__I should be able to retire soon :cheers:

Not until I get my car down to Sarasota for a "proper tune-up". :thirsty::driving:
I've learned more from my screwups than anything...except what I learned from Randy, Superwrench, Tom Monaco, and everyone else who helped in the last 3 years.
 
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Mowgli81

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Followup: With new Coil I am still getting no spark on 2 which says dist to me. Hence I'll be testing the ohms on those. Unfortunately the cap and wires are integrated so I'll most likely have to replace the cap assembly if bad. Or maybe the whole distributor?
@Rich - I'll double check those things. If I have
@Randy - I'll put good gas in, and test wires. I might be leaning to a fuel problem since I get spark but no inclination of starting. Where should I start with the fuel issue as I know the fuel pump works and It will have good gas? (I'll cycle it through to the carbs)

Is there a way to spray starter fluid down in there or use a good carb cleaner etc?
 

kkaa

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If you have spark and no ignition, then Im also thinking fuel. Can you try kicking it over with starter fluid for a second to see if you get the "duhdump" and let us know.
 
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Mowgli81

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If you have spark and no ignition, then Im also thinking fuel. Can you try kicking it over with starter fluid for a second to see if you get the "duhdump" and let us know.
Will do! Since I'm unfamiliar with these carbs I've been reading up and getting a bit more confident.
 
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Mowgli81

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@All - First of all thank you for your assistance here is where is stands for me during this multi-faceted problem.

Coil - Operational
Distributor lines Ohmed (1,3-5) all ohmed between 5.5 and 6.5 on 20K setting 2 and 6 were open. Need to replace cap since lines are integrated. I will send picture to see if you all can help with Ident if I cant find in parts mag.
Sprayed a bit of Starting/throttle body cleaner in carbs and got the results I've been longing for as kkaa says "Dahdump-ump"

Seems I'm down a fuel delivery problem now.
Remember she sat for about a year but ran fine prior.

Things done so far
1) I have swapped fuel out and cycled fresh fuel just to the carb
2) the piston on one carb seemed a bit stuck but it is free now.

Thoughts on moving forward?
4) Do I need to drain fuel bowls? if so recommentations?
5) Should I crank while spraying starter fluid to try to cycle the old fuel out of the bowls and remove 'gummy-gunk' from around the jets?
6) Based on what I'm thinking something is slightly bound/gummed up and needs to be freed up to allow fuel through.
7) Should I be pulling suction chamber and removing the jet needle and cleaning? (I've rebuilt carbs before but not an SU, any advice for success even if it means "don't do it!" I'll take it - I'm very mechanical but don't want to ruin and get into sticky situation)
 
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57_BN4

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Leads are held into dist cap with screws inside the contact terminals underneath. Tiny flat screwdriver and they'll come out. If leads are fairly stiff then they are copper wire which rarely gives trouble, if they are floppy then probably modern carbon core ones which you can replace with generic HT lead. If you have resistor caps on the plug ends of copper wires then they usually unscrew out of the lead end- these often fail.

Carbs are fairly straightforward. remove float bowl tops and mop out old fuel/gunge. Piston slides (remove air cleaners) should lift and fall smoothly with a clunk if the top caps/dampers are removed. Choke mechanism should work to pull the jet at the bottom down- won't start cold very easily otherwise. SUs are very easy to rebuild- slightly harder to tune.


Andy.
 
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Mowgli81

Mowgli81

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Leads are held into dist cap with screws inside the contact terminals underneath. Tiny flat screwdriver and they'll come out. If leads are fairly stiff then they are copper wire which rarely gives trouble, if they are floppy then probably modern carbon core ones which you can replace with generic HT lead. If you have resistor caps on the plug ends of copper wires then they usually unscrew out of the lead end- these often fail.

Carbs are fairly straightforward. remove float bowl tops and mop out old fuel/gunge. Piston slides (remove air cleaners) should lift and fall smoothly with a clunk if the top caps/dampers are removed. Choke mechanism should work to pull the jet at the bottom down- won't start cold very easily otherwise. SUs are very easy to rebuild- slightly harder to tune.


Andy.

Andy Thank you! Good to hear I'll replace the dist lines with generics - matching length unless you have other instructions.
As for the float bowl tops...is there a gasket that needs replacing or if I'm careful can I reuse for now?

As for tuning been reading and watching a bit...except for matching air flow and syncing "seems" pretty straight forward.

Do you happen to know the correct Spark gap and timing position by Chance? BJ8 66 healy inline 6 MK3000
 
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57_BN4

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You might find that the HT leads that are giving open circuit readings are having issues contacting inside the cap if they are floppy silicone/carbon string ones. The screw inside the terminal has a spike on it which is supposed to stick through the plastic and into the copper wire of the original leads but often they are replaced with modern leads and the spike doesn't make good contact. If the lead end in the cap is black and crusty then just shorten it up half an inch or so and it should be good to go.

Float bowl gaskets usually survive being reused but they are just a thin ring of gasket paper if you have to make another one. Check the float needle tip- if they are brass then replacing them with modern rubber-tipped ones and new seats will give far better float level control and less hot flooding.

Timing isn't very critical, set the pulley dimple (TDC mark) about half to 3/4 inch away from the pointer. 25 thou for the plugs with points ignition.

The two things that make SUs hard to tune are leaking float needle/seats and worn throttle spindle bushings. If you can wiggle the spindles in the bushings when the throttle pedal is pressed down about an inch then they won't give very reliable tuning results. Lots of instructions online for tuning carbs
https://www.healey6.com/Technical/HD8.pdf

Andy.
 
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