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TR2/3/3A Girling 10" Rear Brakes question

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TR4nut

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Last weekend I helped a friend redo his rear brakes - 10" Girling setup. I thought I was qualified enough to help because I had done this last year for my pre-60K TR3A project. I think I may have done it wrong, however - both my project car, and his car had both steady posts as well as spring loaded shoe retaining pins. The steady posts were unique to the Girling 10" setup and I've not seen a writeup on them.

So questions:

1) Is there a factory manual out there describing the 10" drums with the steady posts?

and

2) Were both of these cars incorrectly setup since they had both steady posts and retaining springs? I thought that was normal but looking at the Moss offerings it looks as though the steady posts were the only thing that should have been there - not the retaining pins. Is that right? Seems a little confusing because there are holes in the backplate as well as holes in the brake shoes that work nicely with the retaining pins.

Thanks
Randy
 
Geo Hahn

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Mine (TS47905) had both... but I only had 3 of the 4 spring doo-hickeys so I omitted all of them and just used the steady post. No problemo.
 
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TR4nut

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Thanks Geo- my theory is building that there are a significant number of cars around that commission number that we equipped with both. My commission is just under 46000, my friends is in the 47000 neighborhood (not being secretive, just can't remember the exact numbers). Your car makes it 3. Seems too coincidental to just be a previous owner thing.

From reading around on the subject I do know Don Elliot only has steady posts on his 10" brake setup - but I think Don's commission is a bit earlier too.
 
TR3driver

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Interesting. One of my previous TR3As had the posts and no hold down springs, but I don't recall the commission number offhand. Seems like it was around TS42xxx. It had a really strange clunk that I eventually traced to the post not being properly adjusted ... when you applied the brakes, the shoes would walk out to match the drum, then fall back with a clunk a second or two after releasing them. There were extra holes in the shoes, but I don't recall any extras in the back plates.

TS39781LO should have had posts, but had the later 9" brakes installed (with springs) when it came to me.

No evidence in the SPC of the hold-down springs being fitted along with the posts.
 
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Jerry

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I just did my 10 inch and they have the posts but no retaining pins. But, the springs in the back don't hold one side quite tight to the rear plate, causing some scraping on the drum. So the retaining pins might be a good add to the system. I am going to run it a bit and see what is rubbing (should show some shiny metal) prior to decision on the retaining pins.

Jerry
TR3A post 60000
 
TR3driver

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Sounds like you might have the springs in wrong, or they are distorted. On mine, they pulled the shoes firmly against the back plate (and there was even a fair amount of wear at the contact points).
 
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possible, but I could not figure out another way to install the springs. Both are in the back of the shoes, smaller one on top.
Jerry
 
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TR4nut

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Jerry-

Was your car modified by a previous owner? For a post-60000 car I'd expect you'd have 9" drums, and the normal retaining pin setup with no posts.

Randy
 
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Jerry

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Randy,
that is VERY possible. The PO has done many changes. I have Type B calipers on the front, 10 inch on the back, A TR4 engine as per the serial number. The car came with two 40 DCOE weber, but not installed in the car. So, not an original car. I keep thinking about your thought that the springs are not installed correctly, I just don't see another way to do it unless there are other holes to put the springs. But I will check. Thanks for the suggestion.

jerry
 
Geo Hahn

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Jerry said:
...I could not figure out another way to install the springs. Both are in the back of the shoes, smaller one on top...
Click to expand...

Are we all talking about the same springs?

I thought the discussion was retaining springs (127-129) vs steady posts (130-132):

GRID200427.jpg


One would think that only one or the other was needed but (as noted above) at least some cars seem to have both.

Jerry's comment "smaller one on top" sounds like he means the springs that pull the shoes back from the drum (124 & 125) though the smaller/shorter is on the bottom.
 
TR3driver

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Geo Hahn said:
Jerry's comment "smaller one on top" sounds like he means the springs that pull the shoes back from the drum (124 & 125) though the smaller/shorter is on the bottom.
Click to expand...
Little bit of thread drift here. I believe Jerry was talking about the return springs; as on most 10" with the posts, the return springs are the only thing holding the shoes against the posts.

It's been too long, I can't quite remember. Does anyone else have return springs where the ends turn outward on the front side of the shoes, instead of inward? They're shown that way in the back of the Bentley.
 
Geo Hahn

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TR3driver said:
... Does anyone else have return springs where the ends turn outward on the front side of the shoes, instead of inward? They're shown that way in the back of the Bentley.
Click to expand...

If you mean -- does the spring hook into the shoe from behind so the tip of the hook is visible when the springs and shoes are installed -- then yeah, that how mine are.

I always install the springs on the shoes then stretch the pair of shoes into place. No idea if that is the right way or even the best way, just works better than diddling with each spring after the shoes are on.

Sure wish I had taken some pics the last time around.
 
TR3driver

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Actually, I meant the ends of the springs are shaped like this diagram (from the workshop manual), rather than like the one you posted

UNTITLED.JPG

I agree about it being much easier to install the springs on the shoes first, and then the shoes onto the backplate.
 
TR3driver

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Geo Hahn said:
Sure wish I had taken some pics the last time around.
Click to expand...
Well duh ... I did take some pictures, just forgot about them. Here's a shot with the springs installed (properly I think)

and the bare back plate where you can see the pegs (barely) and the lack of extra holes
 
Geo Hahn

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PatGalvin said:
Don't know if this photo helps?
Click to expand...

Well, it helps me feel bad about how grotty mine look.

I do now see the difference in springs Randall mentioned. Yours hook onto the hole (like one might expect) rather than reach thru and rest against the shoe (like in Randall's photo).

BTW -- Have you noticed that your car is upside-down?
 
TR3driver

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Are those even 10" brakes? I thought the folded hold down springs and smaller adjuster assembly were part of the 9" versions.
 
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TR4nut

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Those look like 9". Adjusters for sure are 9" style, not like the bulkier 10" version. And very nice 9" I might add, I agree with Geo's comments!

The 10" drums I just set up have the springs turned down like Randall shows. Only difference is I've found spring retaining clips in addition to the steady posts.
 
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