Just bought a 1968 Austin Mini

It is still in the trailer in pieces and we are halfway home. But I will have some questions for you, since I have never worked on a Mini before. This has a 1275 engine, but the serial plate is gone. Is there a way to determine what year this engine was built? The car has the original brakes and suspension. Some reading so far suggests upgrading to disc on at least the front. Is this a safety recommendation or just to make it more like the Cooper S models? More questions to come and I will post a picture too. Jerry

Congratulations and have a safe trip home !

If the car has a 1275 and drum brakes, then the engine is a transplant. The 1275 engine could be from several sources. It could be a Cooper-S, it could be from an Austin-America, or it could be a much later A+ 1275 engine. Start by looking at the gearbox by crawling under the car.

If you find a LONG aluminum housing going from the back of the gearbox to under the shift lever, that is a remote shift. There are two types. One has (4) vertical bolts connecting the long aluminum housing to the bottom of the gearbox. That's a Cooper/Cooper-S remote. If you find there is a plate sandwiched between the aluminum housing and the gearbox and that there are horizontal bolts connecting that plate to the gearbox and housing, that is an Austin-America remote shift. If instead you find a whole bunch of rods running from the back of the gearbox to just under the shift lever, that's a later rod-change gearbox. While you can mix and match gearboxes and engines with some success, it is very likely that whoever put the 1275 in this car used the gearbox from the same donor vehicle so the gearbox may help point to where the engine came from. There is also the slim chance that whoever transplanted the engine used a "pudding stirrer" (a.k.a. magic wand) gearbox but it is very, very uncommon for someone transplanting a 1275 to do that. Let us know what you find.

Also look at the engine itself. If it has a generator as opposed to an alternator, it is not likely to be an A+ engine. However, alternator upgrades are common so finding an alternator does not mean this is a later engine. Other outward engine differences are going to be subtle. On the back of the block (where you cannot easily see) there will be removable tappet cover plates for Cooper-S 1275 engines. The Austin-America engine won't have those. A Cooper-S engine will have come from the factory with (11) studs/bolts to hold the cylinder head down. However, it was not uncommon to modify heads and blocks for other 1275 engines to add the extra (2) fasteners (standard engines having (9) fasteners from new). The front plate on an Austin-America is larger and has ears for engine mounts. If you look at the engine below the alternator/generator and see excess sheet metal pointing towards the grille (or evidence that something has been "hacked off" there) then you are likely to have an Austin-America 1275.

It is common practice to upgrade drums to disks when 1275 engines are fitted. The argument goes that if you have more power you are going to use it so you need to be able to stop better. The argument going the other way is that if you drove your 850 or 998 Mini like a normal person and do not drive any differently with the 1275, you don't need bigger/better brakes. After all, you are not driving with your feet on the brakes and gas at the same time and you have not changed the mass of the car. Regardless, it's generally considered a safety improvement to put disks on when a 1275 is fitted. Be advised that if your car still runs 10" rims you want the 7.5" Cooper-S brakes, not the 8.4" disks which were used on later Minis. The 8.4" disks will not work with the 10" rims without major modifications. There are other brake swaps available but they have their drawbacks. After you have driven your car for a while and know you want to keep it you can look into a brake upgrade. Though complete upgrade kits are available, most people buy a set of used parts and recondition them for about 1/2 the price.

Thanks for the info. Since the engine is out of the car, I can inspect for all those things. I will start looking for a disk conversion. Our club says I have a lead foot.
Jerry

Here are some pictures, Does this make it a cooper engine? Jerry

Here is a link to lots of pictures in Picasa:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sre...27089&authkey=Gv1sRgCPn0-dCzls6LWQ&feat=email

Great pictures!

That is probably a 1275-S engine but I still cannot tell you for sure.
The distributor is a 23D4 which was used on the -S.
The gearbox is a remote shift (the yellow picture above is of the Cooper/Cooper-S remote shift extension).
The removable tappet covers (one with a breather) are clearly visible on the back of the block.
This is probably a late Mk2 or Mk3 1275 engine as the gearbox output shafts are the "pot joint" type.
What surprised me is that one picture shows a single carb on a manifold. An -S would use a pair of SU HS2 carbs from the factory and some people fit a pair of HS4 carbs. It wasn't until later that BL started fitting single large carbs. There is nothing wrong with a large single carb, it's easier to adjust one than two... it's just a surprise with everything else you have there.
It looks like the previous owner fitted a manual heater shut-off valve to the cylinder head. It's the type found on very early small bore engines. Did the seller provide you with a heater? If so, you may want to get a later heater valve and cable for it.

It looks like you got a great project there. I hope they did a good job on the paint and bodywork. When you get a chance, post a couple of pictures of the following areas.
Top down of the engine valve cover.
Underneath the shell, looking at the sills under the door opening.

In CA you have access to at least three parts suppliers: Mini Mania, Seven, and Heritage Garage. However, if you find you are buying "big ticket" items, be sure to check the prices at Mini Spares, Mini Sport, and a couple of others in the U.K. Sometimes even with shipping it is less expensive to buy from England.

EDIT: I have a question for you and the previous owner. In picture 17 you show the exhaust system. It LOOKS like you have a catalytic converter in the pipes. Why? Was emissions testing required for a 1968 car where you bought the car? The car certainly would not have had a converter from the factory.

Doug,
I will look for some more clues tomorrow. MiniMania has an engine identifier page but I don't have enough pictures to answer the questions. The car came from Canada originally. The front floor panels and the box under the seat has been replaced. There is a new rear frame unit to be installed. The exhaust from Canada may have require a catalytic converter but not in California. Mini Mania is about 30 miles up the road. Seven is about 10 miles. But I do order parts for my Healey from England and get them fast and cheaper at times. I do have to finish my present project which is a TR3A before I start this one but I will start accumulating parts. I think disk brakes, are on the list. I can put the engine on my engine stand and test it prior to install. The vin plate was painted over and then rough sanded. the numbers are visible, but it is quite ugly. Can that be reproduced? I think the paint is good, but would look better with a color sand and clear coat. It was just painted last April. It has not been put back together since then.
More pictures to come, thanks for the help.
jerry

I'm glad that Seven (in particular) is so close. They were on the east coast when I bought my Mini and were a major source of the parts I needed. However, many of the big ticket items I needed or wanted came directly from Mini Spares.

The reverse stamped VIN tags can be produced. Basil does not like us to direct people to other message boards but in this case it seems appropriate. There is currently a thread on the Mini Mania web site that asks this exact question. The thread includes a link to a vendor who can reproduce your VIN tag when you provide them the necessary proof of ownership.

Regarding the VIN tag, there are several numbers on the car but only one VIN tag. On Mk1 (and probably Mk2) cars the VIN tag is "screwed" onto the body on the top of the radiator duct housing attached to the left inner wing. Near that is often a large set of stamped numbers beginning with "FE". The FE numbers were for factory use and while there is some cataloging of them in the U.K. that can help date a car missing other information... it is not too helpful in most instances. On Mk1/2 cars there is often a metal tag spot welded near the bonnet latch. That is the body number tag and it is typically painted over. It will not have the same number as the VIN tag.

It's good to have projects. I hope you are able to get to this one soon.

Here is the head Mowag stamp: Mowag Head stamp 13G1316. The MiniMania site engine work through requires the aluminum stamps to still be on the car. So I still was not sure. Does this head number mean anything to you experts?
The block is stamped: AT5M Gor6 and 157 on the other side.
Now to go look in all the boxes for other stuff that came with the car.

jerry

Take a second look at the cylinder head casting number. I think it should be 12G1316 instead of 13G. The 12G1316 head is a "smog port" 1275 head. The smog ports are visible in your pictures near the spark plugs. I don't know if the 12G1316 was used on Mini 1275s but I am fairly confident it was used on 1275 Midgets. The first 1275 -S head was the AEG163. Later -S cars used a different head with the last probably using the 12G940.

You are correct on the 12 G. And only one carburetor. I was hoping for two.
Jerry

Jerry
Get with Kimball (lives in your area)- he is probably one of the BEST sources for parts and info for real Mini's.
I think that you have his info. DK has GREAT info too but he is far away.
BillM

I bought this car off the internet, mostly on faith. After talking to the guy that was selling it I decided the value was there and the rest could be dealt with. The guy that owned it was in the service and going to have a baby, so the car was going to pay for baby stuff. Now that I know what the engine is, I can do some testing and see if it was really rebuilt or not. I will put it on my engine test stand and do some run ups prior to a compression and other tests. The only other thing that I want to find out is what the black stuff is that is sprayed on the bottom of the car. Seems like an undercoat but has no rubber feel. Feels more like an extra thick epoxy primer. I the PO a message to see if he can find the guy that did the paint. It is a very small town. They painted the outside with Matrix paint. I have not worked with it before but at least I know the brand now.
Jerry

It is definitely a 1275. Where it came from is not too important. If the compression and/or leak-down tests go well I would not rebuild the engine. When at some later date you want to rebuild it... then you can measure the internal parts to determine where the engine may have come from. A thorough rebuild of an -S engine can run around $2k. I'd hate to see you invest that kind of money in a car you just bought.

But I like rebuilding engines!!!!
I know so far:
need a new windshield, perhaps with the tint to keep it cooler?
need new rubber suspension
need disk brakes (ok, a want, not a need) perhaps a servo?
need new upholstery, holes in one seat and the rear seat
need new tires (10 inch, I think I will stick with those)
Need new shocks (Lots of choices here, adjustable or not?) I think I want a comfortable street ride.
radiator? looks original, and I live in HOT climate. clean or upgrade?
oil cooler?

Boy do I like projects and to spend money.

Jerry

Engine builds can be fun but just to get the flywheel off the Mini you will need to make, buy, or borrow a special puller.
Fortunately the front windshield is the same for all years so it should not be too expensive. Perhaps Seven has one so you won't have to pay for shipping.
(Installing Mini glass does NOT go well using the string method. When you are ready, post back and ask about the best way to do it).
I bought my rubber cones directly from Mini Spares. It was one of those items less expensive from the U.K. even with shipping. However, are you sure you need rubber cones? As built, your '68 should have had hydrolastic suspension. However, it is common for previous owners to convert to dry. Before buying any suspension parts, look at your subframes and make sure you buy the "right parts".
When you get the front disks you may or may not want the servo. The servo does NOT make the brakes any safer. It only makes it easier to push the pedal. It is also one more part to buy, install, and worry about failing.
Upholstery for the Mini is available from many sources. You are likely to find the best deal by checking eBay.co.uk
I think you will like the 10" tires. There are different rim widths. You will need to check yours before making a tire selection. Tire Rack consistently has better "regular" prices than the Mini vendors. The vendors do have regular sales though.
For shocks and street driving, consider KYB Gas-A-just. They are non-adjustable quality shocks at a good price... particularly when ordered form the U.K.
Try cleaning the radiator first. For really hot climates you may want to read up on the "Super 2-Core" radiator from Mini Spares. It should fit without issue and is often recommended for hot climates and/or hot engines. There are also different fan options. I think when I looked at your pictures there was one showing the multi-blade yellow plastic fan. That should give you good air flow without excessive noise. Before installing the engine, make sure the fan is on the water pump in the correct orientation. The fan blades will have a very slight cup shape. Looking at the spark plugs from the front of the engine the blades should be oriented like this:
engine --- ( --- radiator.
Oil coolers can be helpful at lowering temperatures but many say they are not needed with modern oils. My suggestion would be to fit the engine and drive it for a while first. Decide if you want or need a cooler later based on your car's operating temperature and your personal preference.

Thanks Doug, I finally got the car out of the trailer today and into the barn for storage for about 4 months. I also checked the vin and title and found out this is a 1969 so it should have the rubber suspension. I also found the Haynes Restoration manual that came with the car. The odometer that I unpacked showed 47003 miles, so I wonder if that is real or it has rolled over. The only item that looked real worn was the rear subframe and that has a new one to replace the old rusty one. Now to start reading!

Jerry

Having worked on Midgets, 'Bs, and several Triumphs... I am confident saying that you should find the Mini easier to work on. There is almost no "under dash" or behind the dash stuff to give your body and hands cramps. Working under the bonnet will make your lower back hurt (particularly if you are tall). However, the things that WILL get you at some point are:
You WILL hit hour head on the bonnet latch. Be careful.
You WILL bust your hand taking the drain plug of the sump. Pay attention to where your wrench is and try to have it vertical so when it breaks free you don't bust your hand open on the front panel.

Speaking of the drain plug, I have a recommendation for you when you get around to that first oil change. Replace the copper crush washer. Go to the parts store and in their collection of replacement drain plug seals, find the 14mm metal seal with a rubber ring in the center. 14mm should NOT fit the 5/8-11 Mini drain plug but it CAN be threaded on. Once installed, the rubber makes the seal between the sump and plug with the metal ring controlling the crush height. It is not uncommon for Mini sumps to get stripped and the fix is a large HeliCoil. If you switch to the bonded metal/rubber seal you wont strip the sump and you'll have easier oil changes.

EDIT: BTW, Prior to fitting that new rear subframe you may want to apply a bit of additional protective paint to it. When bolting it in place, apply anti-seize to the bolts going through the trunnions to the car body. On the whole car, those rear subframe bolts are probably the most prone to shearing during major maintenance. Repair when that happens can be a major pain.

I was going to apply a layer of single stage urethane to the rear subframe. I have some from the TR3A that I am working on. I noted that there is a new bolt kit for the subframe, is that necessary due to rust issues? The good news is that I have a car lift in my workshop so I should be able to avoid the pan bolt issue, but I am sure I will hit my head on the bonnet.
I am still trying to decide what to do with the undercoat put on the car. The Haynes restoration manual actually recommends using that stuff but I hate it and would prefer a good paint coat. It looks like this stuff is sandable, so I may be able to overcoat it.
My wife has already told me that she wants mags on the car, and "how wide of tires can we put on". I was not planning on buying new wheels but I may lose that argument.
Jerry

Minilites (and their clones) always look good on a Mini. Of course there are lots of others. I think the stock rim width for a regular 850/998 Mini was 3.5". The -S ran 4.5" width steels. There are wider rims available up to perhaps 6". If you are going with alloy wheels, something 4.5" or wider would be recommended so you can run 165/70/10 tires. Be advised though that the standard Mini came with "narrow" rear drums that work well with those 3.5" rims. When you start running wider tires like the -S did you will either need spacers for the rear wheels or you will need to replace the 850/998 drums with those for an -S which already have a spacer as part of the casting.

I understand your not wanting the undercoating but if it was done right, why not let sleeping dogs lie? If you do remove it, a good urethane paint like you are suggesting for the subframe should be fine.

The new subframe bolts that came with your car are probably an indication that the old bolts broke when they went to remove the subframe. It's a bad situation. If you have the new bolts and all the tapped holes are OK, just remember the anti-seize when putting the pieces together.

The Haynes restoration manual you are referring to, is it the one by Lindsay Porter? If so, it's a good book but hard to work with sometimes. A lot of information is in there but it is not organized or indexed well. You may want to get some colored tabs from the office store and flag the pages you think you might want to come back to.

BTW, hitting your head on the bonnet isn't what you need to worry about. Watch out for hitting your head on the latch for the bonnet and its nice pointy hook!

I mentioned to a friend that this engine came with only one carb, at 1.5 inch SU. He thought I should convert one of my 40 DCOE webers for the fuel supply, but he also has an original set of H2 off a mini cooper that are already rebuilt. Since the engine is probably stock, do you have recommendations?

Jerry