TR2/3/3A tr3b

Can anybody out there, keeping emotions and $$$spent at bay, give me a realistic price for a fully restored concourse quality (8-9) TR3b and MGTD thanks it will be a big help.

The no emotion average sales price (not to be confused with asking price) for a concours (99-100 points) TR3B is $15,500 -- add 10% for either O/D or Hardtop. Asking prices will be around $20K.

100-point TDs are $26,000. 96 point (regional concours-condition) drop to $18,000.

These are all based on recorded book values, which are very consistent between different value guides.

If they truly meet the standards you have set out. I will take two, CASH.

NADA puts the TR3B at $25.5K for a vehicle that is not quite a 100 point car.

https://www.nadaguides.com/uv/viewresults...=1&wPg=2032

I'll match BoR's offer and add a finders fee. True concours examples are a rarified field where values go way up for the few really fine examples.

Tr3 concours in the 20's range. Up or down depends on the age of the restoration and quality of detail. This includes photo/receipt documentaion of the work done and contact info on a number 1 car. 15 to 19K a number 2 (+/-) car and the denominator is miles/wear on that once number 1 car. Pat Ballogg Auto Appraisal Group

The thing we have to keep in mind is that concours as defined in terms of TR3 and MG is a very wide range of quality. If your definition of 100-point concours is "Pebble Beach Over-restoration," then certainly $20,000-$24,000 is a reasonable valuation for a $100,000 restoration. There are few of these cars offered for sale, and even fewer takers.

Also keep in mind that for TR3s, many concours cars are wire wheel/OD/hardtop vehicles, because it wouldn't make sense to restore to that standard anything less.

However, concours by Triumph and MG standards often means "factory-correct," where 100-point means a lower level of detail, because our cars were delivered with horrible paint, terrible panel fit and almost never a chrome wire wheel in site.

Again, what the asking prices are, (and what the appraisers value them at for insurance purposes) and what the market actually reflects realistically are very different.

How many people on this forum have paid more than $15,000 for a TR3? There will always be blank-check purchases, but Barrett-Jackson type results are far outweighed by the thousands of other transactions throughout the year. (Meaning, a 1969 Z28 might be $145,000 at BJ in January, but a high point Z28 is still only worth $45,000 the rest of the year.)

And by the way -- NADA is almost entirely useless on vintage cars. It is almost always at least 10-15% high or low compared to every other legitimate value guide.

A lot of very nice TR3's go for more than 15K. I've seen and appraised them. Concours is concours. Quality work is paid for. The panel fit and paint on a 60's Dodge hemi wasn't exactly up to Bugatti standards either but you've seen the prices these vehicles go for. Certainly, a basically good TR3, needing minor body work, older paint, more than basic maint mechanically can be had for less money but the qualifier was 'concours'.

Pat,
I respectfully disagree, for a few reasons.

The reason Hemis go for six-figures has nothing to do with quality. It has everything to do with desirability, which is based on perceived performance advantage over its contemporaries. Sure, better restored cars carry a premium, but with muscle cars, it's about the right hi-po engine/carb setup with the right options list checkboxes.

And it's not even about rarity. They only made 252 three-speed Corvettes in 1969, but the 2722 427/435hp tripower cars are all worth a heck of a lot more. Or for a better example -- 1964 Buick Rivieras were high quality, better riding, often better performing, and most importantly --rarer cars than Impalas, but it seems that these days you can't sell a Riv if your life depended on it, while the '64 Impala SSs are still highly desired.

Now as for restoration -- Concours, actually, is not "concours" across the board. What constitutes 100point is really a breathing concept. For instance, NCRS standards often are in conflict with Pebble Beach standards. Furthermore, CCCA concours judging is different than both the others. There were cars in the high 90-point range at our regional CCCA Grand Classic, which under NCRS-esque or Pebble Beach scale grading would have scored in the low 80s. It's a question of authenticity/ period correctness/ factory correctness vs. restoration quality.

My TR3, for instance, was inspected by the mechanic who sold/serviced it new (yeah, can you believe that!!! I bought the car in Santa Rosa, CA a couple years ago, and the Wine Country-area dealer sales/service manager moved to Olympia, where he now works on old European cars!) He said "this car looks a heck of a lot better than it ever did new," and noted which typical TR3 deficiencies had been solved on my car. Now my car would score mid 80s at a concours on a Pebble Beach system -- and it wouldn't stand a chance against most the TR3 concours cars here in the Northwest -- which are restored to levels often on par with the Dusenbergs and Mercedes 540Ks in my area.

And I don't dispute that TR3s do, in fact, go for more than $15K, just that the "average" price for a concours steel disc wheel, non-OD, no hardtop car is roughly $15,500. The average concours price for a desirable ww/od/ht car is roughly $19,000.

There will always be blank check purchases, but in the industry, we must focus on the majority -- rather than the guys like my father in law who always pay way too much, and the guys like me who never buy a car unless it's a near once-in-a-lifetime deal. (Other than the '02 Corvette in my garage and my wife's Olds -- both bought new, I have yet to spend five-figures on a car, including purchase and running costs.)

Well,Sammyb. What better time than now to ask, "what'll ya take for your car?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thank you for the input. If you follow EBAY, the TD was listed last week. I figure the car is worth 18,000- 25,000.I have been in touch with a gentleman in MIssouri finishing a TR3B restoration . According to him it will be done to the highest standards. I will go to see the car. He wants to trade for the TD. I'm trying to gather information as to wether the trade should be even. In our e-mail conversations , I get the idea that he's thinking that the TR3B will be worth much more than my proven TD show winner.
I realize that I'll have to make a decision. I have been offered good $$$ for the car. Maybe I should take the $$$ (more than 15,500) and look for a TR3A or B as a cash deal. What are your thoughts???? I know i'm rambeling but decisions decisions. I also own a 69MGB and a 2004 Jaguar.

Just out of curiosity, what are the "standards" for a TR3b, since the TR3b was never an official model, and was frequently made with TR4 parts?

A show-winning TD should be worth more than a 3, so I'd take the cash, then buy his. Trades almost never work out well if you have the more valuable car.

And as was just mentioned...the standards for 3s (much less 3Bs) are all over the place.

And BoxORocks, it's worth it to me to keep my car at market value. I got it for a good deal, but really enjoy driving it. I guess if someone offered me a crazy amount of money, I'd sell it.

>Just out of curiosity, what are the "standards" for a TR3b, since the TR3b was never an official model, and was frequently made with TR4 parts? <

Hi,

You are right that the TR3"B" was never an official model. Basicially the TR3A was discontinued when the TR4 was introduced in 1961. But, in 1962 N. American dealers felt there was still a demand for sidescreen cars and Triumph agreed to produce more.

All TR3"B" are believed to have been built lefthand drive. Apparently there was limited paint and trim choice, too. But, TR3"B" were pretty much just a continuation of the TR3/3A line.

TR3"B" can best be identified by serial number. There were two batches of cars built. TSF1 thru TSF530L are virtually identical to TR3A. TSF1L to TSF2804L were built using 86mm motors and full synchro gearboxes.

According to Bill Piggot, the last 29 TR3"B" chassis were sent to Italy instead of N. America, where they were fitted with Italia bodies.

Aside from the gearboxes and engines on the TSF-series cars (same spec as TR4) there was little other sharing of parts between the cars. The 0 degree castor front suspension on early TR4s was carried over from TR3, but was changed to 3 degree castor after approx. 6000 units.

What makes it a little confusing is that in 1960 there were between two to five prototype cars built, TR3 "Beta". These were developed as a possible replacement for the TR3A, with wider track, rack & pinion steering, etc. "Beta" share more parts with TR4. The frame is quite similar, but the side rails are 1" taller through the addition of an extra U-shaped section. The body mounting outriggers are one inch narrower per side on the "Beta" than the TR4 (although really early TR4 actually use an extension to the outrigger, rather than longer outriggers). The fenders of the TR3 were reworked to be approx. 2" wider in some areas. "Beta" development was dropped after the TR4 design was selected for production.

Cheers!

Alan

Sam, I agree with most everything you state except your figures. This last year has seen a bump in prices. I only set the condition of vehicles as an independent agent but do not put a $figure on the vehicle. Our company has full time people that do nothing else but watch the auto market place nationally and internationally. Your figures were correct about a year ago. Using a blu book or nada today is akin to using a tickertape to monitor the stock market. The figures I quoted were for a solid #1 vehicle (ok pick a standard) based on sales in the last 6 months of actual vehicles - not an average of dis similar cars. Anyway, we agree to disagree.

Out of curiosity, there are two 76 TR6's in storage at the Jag dealer in Metairie, Louisiana, loaded (hardtop, etc.), never titled, essentially no miles, climate controlled stored, one green - one white. What might these be worth, each? One day someone will be able to talk to them. (Paretti Imports)

Bill

Bill, Not sure off the top. 'Original car' like 'concours' are two very misused terms. Concours translates to basically a 'contest of items judged on excellence', in the car world a show car, #1 and undriven. I looked at one last week, 56 Jag XK140mc roadster restored 13 years ago with 287 miles since, hence my comments above (most cars that I look at advertised as #1 are really low #2 or high 3's- if it's a driver it ain't #1). We could price this Jag because there are other vehicles of like cond. that are sold to get comparables. "All original" is seen all the time and then the owner tells you about the new paint. It ain't original. All original (like the TR's you describe) is a vehicle in it's first, unmolested, condition. They are usually very rough and require a total/considerable restoration. I don't have a comparable in mind for that state/model of car. It would have to be researched for similar sales activity.

Interesting trade -- could be a striaght up deal but of course that very much depends on the cars and the standard & style of restoration. They are certainly cars with very different characters.

I have sent you a p-mail with something that may help you assess his car.

PRB51, I agree with your description, maybe you could help me with a description. I have one of those "all original" TRs. Unfortunatly it has been repainted same exact fact color a few years ago. But it does have virtually everthing else as it left the factory, from top to tires to exh to fan belts to spark plug wires to timing chain sound deadener to int.etc, etc. Its in great survivor shape,and looks terrific, but what do I describe it as? I have been calling it an original survivor, except paint. Is there a more conscise word?

More on the brace of TR6's. The last time I was able to look at them was on the showroom floor. Paretti Imports, the Jag dealer, was a TR and MG dealer until those brands went defunct. They were stored sans battery, were started regularly, never been outdoors. They now rest in an enclosed storage room for no one to see. He also has the last of the MGB's, black I believe. Said he was saving them for his grandkids. Didn't happen, they all wanted Jags. The head salesman is chomping at the bit. I suppose the rubber goods, etc., will need attention. Paint, I know, was factory condition. When I last looked, there was no visible breakdown anywhere on these cars. Somebody will get some pearls one day.
Point I wanted to make, cars like these do exist.
Bill

Hey, Bill -

Thanks for the memories! I lived in N.O. in the late sixties and early seventies. I remember Paretti Pontiac, etc. very well, and remember test driving a Spitfire in '69. Couldn't pass the credit check, so I missed out.

I've always wondered if dealerships put such cars away - would love to stumble on to one like that!

Mickey