junkyard find: body rust: how bad is bad

since we were discussing barn finds, i mentioned our topic of discussion down at the local auto parts store. one of the guys in the shop said he knew of a "jagwire" in a small local junkyard. i asked him what kind, and he said "i dunno" "buts its a "jagwire"". so i followed his lead, and checked it out. i walked through the gates and spotted it from 100 yrds away. i just about wet myself. i could hear my heart beating and began to walk faster. it was a MK2. complete. its all there. the only thing is the sills are rusted, lower doors are rusted. engine is complete. interior is sad, but complete. my question is what
about the underside. how bad is bad that its way past restoration? what should i look for on the mk2? does it have a frame? help me guys. we are talking about me getting it for 200bucks and he will deliver. i understand the cost of a restoration for this car will be thousands.
probably a 10 year project for me. but is it worth it?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by XJRpilot:
since we were discussing barn finds,
<Snipped>
i walked through the gates and spotted it from 100 yrds away. i just about wet myself. i could hear my heart beating and began to walk faster. it was a MK2. complete. its all there. the only thing is the sills are rusted, lower doors are rusted. engine is complete. interior is sad, but complete. my question is what
about the underside. how bad is bad that its way past restoration? what should i look for on the mk2? does it have a frame? help me guys. we are talking about me getting it for 200bucks and he will deliver. i understand the cost of a restoration for this car will be thousands.
probably a 10 year project for me. but is it worth it?<hr></blockquote>

XJR Pilot;
NEVER, NEVER look at restoring a car, any car, as an "Investment"! It isn't!! It's a "money pit".. 99% of all restorations cost far more than their finished market value (I'm talking a "high" #2 quality "local show winning" car here.
The single reason you buy and restore a particular car is simple.. Because you want THAT car! There need to be no other reason.
If you want to get into economics, then figure that a general restoration is going to cost a minimum of $20,000 to $30,000.. (much higher for a Pebble Beach show quality car),the price of an nice new car.. Which would you rather have.. a fancy Toyota (Lexus) that's exactly like every other Lexus on the road?? Or a unique looking Jaguar (Jag-War in Texas) for about the same price? To me, it's a no-brainer.
Unless the entire underbody is rusted so bad that it looks like Swiss Cheese, the rear springs are sticking up in the boot, there are no floorpans, and every panal on the MK II has really bad rust-thru, the Jag can be salvaged. For enough money, anything can be restored!
With high quality sheet-metal parts available and experienced craftsmen to repair what was once "un-repairable", there is no rusted-out area that cannot be repaired to Factory Specs, or better.
Restorations only require two things: Time and money! A third thing if you plan on doing the majority of the work yourself... Space! Lotsa space!! You can't have too much space!!
I built a 30'x50' shop with the intent of being able to house and work on three or four cars at the same time.. WRONG!! It contains ONE '65 Mustang, on a roticesserie, all the removed sheet-metal parts (I had to build a separate 16'x30' "portable" building to house all the new parts I had to buy (for both the Mustang and my 120 DHC), plus "other" garage type items), all my tools, etc. and I only have enough room to park my 48" cut lawn tractor in it.. My '53 Jaguar XK120 DHC sits outside, exposed to the weather (Boy! Do I have my priorities mixed up or what?)
Bottom line: Don't hesitate!! Buy the MK II.. for $200 and free delivery you can do no wrong.. heck the Carbs alone are worth the selling price!
Also, I believe the MK II's were Unibody construction.. no heavy frame like the "Big" Marks had (MK VII, MK VIII and MK IX). I don't know about the MK X, 420, 420G, etc. but do know the XJ-6 SerI was also Unibody, from that I would assume every Saloon post MK X was as well.
Keep us posted about your acquiring the MK II and it's restoration process and progress.
Now, to answer your question.. You look for rust-thru in every place that water can infiltrate.. The sills are bad about rusting out on Jaguars, the floorpans and boot corners.. the bottoms of the doors, around and under the winshield and rear window weaterstripping. Also the wheel arch openings, especially in the lower corners.
To thoroughly "inspect" the body you will need two very important tools... A refrigerator magnet (the kind you stick your kids first grade art up with) and an old fashion "Ice Pick"..
Use the magnet to locate body filler (it was used a lot to "fix" rusted thru holes in body panels).. these magnets are generally so weak that they will only stick to painted sheet-metal.. if body filler is present, the magnet won't stick..
Use the ice pick to "Poke Around" on suspect areas.. it will easily "stab a hole" in badly rusted metal.. look for "Pits" or "Blisters" in the paint.. Stab 'em!! If the ice pick doesn't penetrate, you have reasonably sound metal. Especially "poke" the floorpans, boot floor and corners, corners of wheel arches, etc.
Take a note pad (8 1/2"x11") and make notes of all the "bad enough to replace" metal panels.. also make a list of items you see need replacing, figure about $5000 for the interior, $3000 for the interior wood, $5000 for a quality paint job, tyres at around $200 per.. plus tubes, about $1000 for front suspension "goodies"... And this doesn't even cover the engine and gearbox overhaul, rechroming and all the "bits and pieces" that you find as you disassemble the MK II nor all the parts that "look good now" but will be "too ugly" to reinstall on the finished car.
Inspect really, really close for "missing" items.. these pieces will be the hardest and most expensive to buy.
Once you have your "basic list", get catalogs from everybody.. shop around, list the "best" prices and total them up.. After you come to, triple the total.. when you wake up again, this will be the "ballpark price" to restore your MK II.. If you "farm out" the labor, double your total.
And remember one last VERY, VERY important thing.. NEVER let your wife see the reciepts, check book, or credit card statements or you will learn the hard way what "Going to Reno" means ;-}
Finally, as you progress thru the restoration process, NEVER, NEVER total your reciepts.. It's something you really don't want to know!
Sorry to be so "windy", but I hope this "primer" helps you with your decision.
Feel free to contact me "Off-List" about a quality sheet-metal supplier, etc. I don't want to "advertise" on BCF (the supplier isn't me)

I can add nothing to Charles' summary. The Mk2 was indeed unibody, no frame, and for $200 I agree, you can't do wrong! If the interior and trim are all in place, in good condition, then you are ahead of the game. They are unavailable, and worth top money. Sheet metal can be replaced or fabricated, you just can't get the interiors.

A restoration will cost you far more than the car is worth, but at the end of it, you will have one of the best looking four-door saloons ever made. If you have room to store it then go for it! I can spend more than $200 at the grocery store!!!!

ok, heres the facts:
its a MK1 2.4 , 1958-59 i'm guessing.
body #H0012423
vin# 5942644BW
engine # B03712-8
BRG exterior, red leather int

its rusty, pretty bad exterior panels on two doors, (doors open and close fine) sills rusty, bonnet ok, boot ok, missing front grill, missing a few trim items, the engine is all there(including 2 solex carbs)(it turns), auto tranny, all gauges there, seat leather really bad but seat frames and innards ok, interior wood shot, rear and front suspension complete and not rusted through, engine frame rails ok, all glass intact(the windows even roll down), yes it would be considered a basket case but i see a beautiful jaguar.
i know its tunnelvision, but i still see a beautiful jaguar MK1. i'm getting it. i have to save it from no attention or love in the junkyard.
or worse "the crusher". i figure its going to be a ten-fifteen year project.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Steve:
I can add nothing to Charles' summary.
<Snipped>
If the interior and trim are all in place, in good condition, then you are ahead of the game. They are unavailable, and worth top money.<hr></blockquote>

I hate to disagree with Steve, but the MK II interior kit is definately available.
BAS Ltd. in Blaine, Washington offers a complete interior kit for the MK II Saloons (or did in '96 when I ordered my kit). The kit includes the Wilton carpet set and underfelt kit, interior panels & vinyl trim, Ft & Rear seat covers (Connolly Leather) and "below the rear seat" vinyl skirt , foam cushions (extra), Center Console trim kit (leather, piping, manual gear stick gaiter), trimmed door panels, Furflex door trim, Union Cloth headliner, The Hardura mat,side panels, etc. for the boot and a Jack Bag.
Contact Tony at: 1-800-661-5377. FAX: (306) 332-0984 (USA Only.. Canada uses a different
"800" number), to order the catalog and sample swatches of the materials and color combinations you might be interested in.
I purchased a complete kit for my 120 DHC and I'm totally impressed with the "correctness" and the quality of the pieces in the kit. I also found BAS to be the most compettively priced among the "other" suppliers of Jag interior kits.
Delivery takes several months, so don't wait till the last minute to order it, if you choose to order from BAS. Plus, prices, unlike the stock market, go up every year..
I have no affilliation with BAS other than being a satisfied customer.

[ 09-02-2002: Message edited by: Charles #677556 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by XJRpilot:
ok, heres the facts:
its a MK1 2.4 , 1958-59 i'm guessing.
body #H0012423
vin# 5942644BW
engine # B03712-8
BRG exterior, red leather int <hr></blockquote>

XJRpilot;
Double check your engine number.. from the Commission Plate (Data Tag on firewall), the backside of the "hump" at the front of the head (which could have been changed in the course of the life of the XK Engine) and on the top of the "Machined boss" next to the block, where the oil filter block attaches to the block)..
My list doesn't show a "BO" engine number.. it does list a "BG".. These numbers were hand stamped and can be difficult to read, at times.
If your MK II does have the "BG" prefix, then your Jag is between '59 & '67 and is a 2.4L engine with the "B" head. A "BC" is the same displacement, but built between '55 & '57 and would be a MK I.
Hope this is of some help.

Re MK2 carburetters, Solex on the 2.4 is correct, 3.4 and 3.8 were on twin HD6 S.U.'s.
Also Martin Robey here in the UK manufactures all the repair panels and sections for the MK2. There is no need to fabricate repair sections, and prices are reasonable.
Alec

Dan Mooney, respected head of Classic Jaguar in Austin, TX, is beginning to restore his long owned Mark II. His web site, classicjaguar.com, is showing the step by step dissasembly of the car and he will be posting photos of the rebuild as it continues. This is good timing for you.

My E type Series One has been in complete reconstruction at Dan's Classic Jaguar for the past fourteen months. Ground up, complete, and can be seen from it's photographic beginnings on his site. Delivery should be within two months.

Money, space and time. Add dedication and your Mark II will, that's will, be a long term non depreciating investment. It's for the long pull.

Enjoy the process and the outcome.

Bob