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Low oil pressure in new engine

Legal Bill

Jedi Knight
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Hi guys. I hope you can give me some advice on this problem. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

ENGINE FACTS
Engine rebuilt by a reputable machine shop with Austin Healey experience

Engine was built and then sat awaiting completion of the rest of the car for 5 or more years.

Replaced components included the rod and main bearings, pistons, rings, oil pump, cam bearings, rocker shaft and rocker bushings. Ask if you want to know about any other components.

Oil is Castrol GTX 20/50.

The engine was started about a year ago. The engine now has about 80 miles on it.

The car went for it's first drive this past fall. The engine had good oil pressure for the first 20 miles, (50+ hot at speed and about 25 at idle)

Then the car was flat bedded to a shop that did some finishing work for me. The only engine work was checking the ignition timing and adjusting the carbs. The gentleman doing the work is well known Healey and antique car repairer and restorer.

While at the shop, the mechanic reported the low oil pressure, but then thought everything was fine.

I just drove it home (about 40 miles) and it had 40 lbs hot at running speed and about 5 lbs at idle.

I let the car cool down for a while and restarted it. It took several seconds to register any oil pressure, but then it did and showed about 20 lbs at idle at about 150 degrees engine temp.

The oil pressure gauge was rebuilt by Nissonger and installed about two year ago before taking the car for a test drive.

POSSIBLE PROBLEMS

Gauge malfunction

Oil pump malfunction

Blocked oil filter (from something in the engine???)

Stuck oil pressure relief valve (but why??)

Bad rocker shaft and bushings? (they are new!!)

What else could it be?

I have not yet started the investigation. I thought I'd ask here first and find out if there is something else I should look at and what is the right order of investigation.

I don't think I have a spare gauge. If I did, I would start with that to see if another gauge gives the same readings. Then I would remove and replace the filter and look at the oil pressure relief valve to see if it has stuck open for some reason. I would change the oil and restart the engine. If I still had the problem, I would remove the valve cover and look for excessive oil squirting from the rockers (should I start with that even though all that stuff is supposed to be new?). If all was well there, I'd drop the pan and pull the oil pump.

Your thoughts and comments will be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Bill

PS, the car ran great on the 40 mile drive home.
 

Keoke

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If all the things you listed checkout OK!!!, there is the possibility that a galley plug in the block is loose.--Fwiw--Keoke
 

Bob McElwee

Jedi Warrior
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If you are using a spin-on oil filter, make sure the adapter is mounted correctly.
 

red57

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Bill, A few random thoughts.

First, pressure running hot doesn't sound too bad, at least not dangerous - old racing addage was 10psi for every 1,000rpm so I doubt if anything has been hurt so far.

I would definately pull the relief valve & check for some small bit of grit or whatever. Also, you can test things a bit by putting a small washer or two inside the cap where the spring seats to increase the spring pressure, start it and see if that improves the guage readings. If it does, you may simply have a weak pressure relief spring.

The new rocker assembly shouldn't be the problem but I have had the small oil supply tube crack - caused a loss of pressure & lots of oil spraying out inside the rocker cover. Pull the cover I start it up, it will be obvious.

Nissonger does such great stuff I really wouldn't think it's the guage but you should try another one just to be sure.

That all I got for now, let us know how things go.

Dave
 
5

57_BN4

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Check the gauge reading against an air compressor if you have one.

A small point of order relating to my engine that has bearing damage after 2000 miles- the oil filter housing contains a bypass valve which had become partially stuck open and allowed unfiltered oil into the engine. I knew this because I could blow through the valve relatively easily.

The previous rebuilder hadn't properly cleaned out the filter housing galleries and it was full of hardened carbon deposits. If you are still running the original style oil filter then I'd definitely find out if that was cleaned properly. You can only clean it by removing the (pressed in) bypass valve. In saying that, I think the longevity advantages of a drain-back valve equipped modern filter are well worth it and this usually means removing the filter housing anyway.

Andy.
 
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Legal Bill

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Thanks guys. I do have an original oil filter assembly.

Andy, I was not aware of any bypass valve inside the filter housing. I'll have to look into that. I have a compressor, but I don't think I have a compatible fitting. The good news is, my brother says he has a gauge I can try, so I'll swing by his house and pick it up tonight.

Dave, thanks for those tips. I will be on the look out for the cracked tube and weak spring.

One issue is the higher pressure when cold. Now, I know the cold oil is thicker, but the difference between hot and cold seems quite high. I just started it up ice cold and the idle pressure was 50 psi. I Reved it to 2000 rpm and it went to 60. Does this piece of info narrow the focus at all?
 

Brinkerhoff

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I agree with Dave. Pull your rocker cover and run the engine checking to see how it oils the top rocker arms. There are copper washers under the supply line from the head fitting to the rocker pedestal. check for leaks here. The oil pressure doesn't sound right from the start. That engine if machined and clearanced properly should still produce 70 psi when cold and no lower than 50 psi at an idle at hot. I hope its a simple fix. My 62 tri carb has 2400 mi. on it and idles with 40 psi. Also make sure your oil pan isn't damaged and blocking the pick up from the pump. I don't think its a guage or relief valve problem . The guages work or they don't , the relief valve just controls high pressure , if it were leaking the low pressure would be constant. Kevin
 

Bob Claffie

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Actually your pressure mirrors my newly rebuilt 100/6. Twenty three years passed between the rebuild and me buying the disassembled car and it was run hardly at all (never on the street) until I finished assembling the car. Certainly worth checking all those good suggestions out but not panic time. Bob
 

Keoke

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:iagree:

Actually your pressure mirrors my newly rebuilt 100/6

One issue is the higher pressure when cold. Now, I know the cold oil is thicker, but the difference between hot and cold seems quite high. I just started it up ice cold and the idle pressure was 50 psi. I Reved it to 2000 rpm and it went to 60. Does this piece of info narrow the focus at all?

NO it simply states zactly what it should do.__Keoke-- :driving:
 
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Legal Bill

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Brinkerhoff said:
.... I don't think its a guage or relief valve problem . The guages work or they don't , the relief valve just controls high pressure , if it were leaking the low pressure would be constant. Kevin

Kevin,

You may be right, but I have to ask, if the rocker union was leaking instead of the relief valve being stuck open a bit couldn't the effect be the same? I guess what I'm asking is, a leak is a leak; does it make a difference where it is located?
 
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Legal Bill

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Thanks Bob. In all my years of owning British cars, I never had one that idled at 5 psi hot. I would get nervous when they went down to 20 psi. This is my second big Healey, and my first, a 100/6, had about 20 when hot at idle.

The fellow who was working on my car confirmed what you said. He tells me he sees many cars running around 5 psi hot. But I'm going to check out a few things before I accept this as the norm. I'm wondering if the oil has anything to do with this. Would straight 40 or 50 weight make a difference? Is that stuff even available anymore?
 

Brinkerhoff

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I would think that if all else inside were perfect , a faulty relief valve would cause a low but constant pressure. Quite the contrary , I don't see many cars running 5 psi . I would take an oil sample and have it analysed to rule out bearing damage, while you're checking out easy to fix things. What I'm saying is that your oil pressure readings would indicate the engine were wore out , provided nothing simple pops up.
 
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Legal Bill

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^I don't see that as a real possibility given the circumstances. Take a look at my first post. Hard to see how it got "wore out" in 80 miles.
 
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Legal Bill

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Ok, here is my first result from removing the oil relief valve. The valve certainly shows signs that it is working. It came out smoothly and showed a uniform shiny ring at about the middle of the cone. The spring is NOT the correct free length. The book calls for 2.687 inches, which I convert to 2 and 11/16. My micrometer measures it at 2 and 7/16 which is a quarter inch shorter. To the extent I end up buying some parts, a new pressure relief spring and valve will be on the list.
 

Keoke

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Could have shimmed it to test the effect of being a little longer--Keoke
 

Ed_K

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Hello Legal Bill,

For what it's worth;

I received a new short spring from Moss just like you have. That was at least three years ago now. If you look at the sections of the shop manual for the older models, you will see that the oil pressure spring length matches what you have in hand. It is now apparent to me that someone made a decision to stock only one spring instead of two different length springs for the various models . Bad decision in my opinion.
If you think about it, why would the factory have specified a longer length spring only for the BJ8 ? ... Because when they assembled and tested a few cars, they noticed that the oil pressure was a little lower than they liked or they would have used the previously existing spring. No other explanation makes any sense to me. I also used to have low oil pressure.
My old original spring was a little shorter than the specified length. I tried stretching it back to the correct length. It went right to the correct length on the first try. It appears to have developed a " memory " of it's original length as well as where it compressed to over the years. When I went through this several years ago like you are now, I first verified that the original spring being too short was really the cause of low oil pressure by adding a washer to bring the total length of old spring and washer to the factory specified length. Doing that shot my initial oil pressure up to 75-80 lbs cold. Dave Russel advised that I had better lower that or I would have trouble. I removed the washer and stretched my original spring back into the correct length and reinstalled it. My oil pressure went up to 60 lbs cold but after the car got hot, the pressure would only reach 45 lbs driving down the road at 60 MPH and it also was low when idling. That is when I tried synthetic oil for the first time in any car. I used to use Castrol 20w-50 dino oil but switched to Castrol syntec 20w-50. I noticed that the oil pressure would not drop as much as it did when using dino oil when the car was hot. I was so impressed with this that I started using synthetic oil in in all my daily drivers as well as the Healey.
.....
Back to the short spring...
I ordered the new spring because I thought that my original spring would shortly go back to the compressed, shorter length so my plan was to replace it with new. Since the new one was too short, I left my old original in the car. To my surprise, It has apparently stayed close to the original length because my oil pressure has not changed ( cold or hot ) since I stretched my original spring back to the correct length and changed to synthetic oil.

Try adding a washer to see if that shoots your oil pressure up where you want it, if so, try stretching your spring to the correct length. Once you have the correct length, install it in the car and see if your oil pressure has improved.

Ed :cheers:
 
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Legal Bill

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Thanks Ed. That is a great story. I put the old one back in without a washer as I was nervous that the washer would find a way to work itself out from behind the spring. I need to run to to the hardware store. Maybe I'll take it out again and bring it with me to see if they have anything that makes me feel a bit more secure about staying in place.
 
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Legal Bill

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Here is another update.

I pulled the rocker cover and started her up. Oil was definitely leaking from the banjo fitting on top of the rocker pedestal. It was coming from the top of the fitting. It was not shooting out of the fitting, but flowing out at a good pace. I could not really tell if it was coming from the bottom also. At my brother's suggestion, I removed the banjo bolt and the washers and reinserted the bolt into the banjo. It bottomed out long before it snugged up to the banjo. I then took it apart again and reinserted one of the washers. Again, it bottomed out before the banjo was squeezed down to the pedestal. I'm wondering what to do now. I'm not thinking my local hardware store will have the solution, but I'll check and see. Stay tuned.
 

red57

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Bill,

Does the small tip/extention on the banjo bolt go easilly into the hole in the rocker shaft? This extention tip is what locates the rocker shaft. If the hole isn't lined up with the threaded hole in the rockershaft pedestal it will prevent the bolt seating all the way home. If this is the problem, you will have to loosten all the rocker pedestals to take all valve spring tension off, then you can work the shaft to get the holes alligned - don't try to force it with tension on because it is real easy to strip the threads out of the aluminum pedestal - voice of experence here. I always put the banjo bolt (without the banjo) in the pedestal and into the shaft hole first then tighten down the pedestals, then remove the banjo bolt & install the pipe & banjo.

Dave
 

Keoke

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:iagree:
Try adding a washer [ Shim ] to see if that shoots your oil pressure up where you want it.

The washer is not going anywhere because the spring does mot move that much---Keoke-- :driving:
 
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