TR6 Turboed TR6 anyone

I'm so sorry to offend you Triumph guys that like to keep it all original...

I respect you so much, but this is for the guys that don't mind changing stuff around... but all input is welcome.



How would a TR6 engine respond to boost?

I got a turbo (14b) off of a Cummins Diesel its fairly small and will spool quickly, I think it's the best choice to give the car some good performance gains. I also picked up a near mint conditon intercooler off a Mini Cooper S.

Upon input from you veterans, I was going to go see about getting a manifold built at a local exhaust shop (They made the turbo manifold for an Eclipse I had, great work)

But I'm not going to do it yet because I want some imput on it before I spend the money.


The car runs great, has a fresh re-build. I have a Kent cam and I plan on getting digital ignition. Most everything has been replaced at one point. Plus we have an extra TR6 for parts.

Anyway, I was curious if this has been done before...

or if I'm the only person that wants to run a little boost.


I'm keen on import cars with fuel injection. I'm a Mitsubishi 4g53 guru... the triumph engine is kindof a shot in the dark with me. Thats why I come here to ask for help.

Thanks again everyone....

I have pictures of the turbo if anyone is interested.

It sounds too complicated for me but it definitely can be done.
Back in the late 1970's and early 80's a company called Arkay engineering (the famous "Kas" Kastner) sold a turbo kit, it was advertised in Road and Track.
These days, with MegaSquirt aftermarket injection available it should be easier and work better; having said that I think I would go for more conventional modifications.
Simon.

First, a turbo for a 5.9 liter diesel might LOOK right, but an engine less than half the size needed to spool it up will probably generate turbo lag that could be measured with a sun dial!!! Second, your freshly rebuilt engine would probably need to come apart again to build it as a lower compression engine to keep from detonating into a melted lump. And lastly, dealing with all the heat (internal and external) might be a larger task than engineering the turbo project in the first place.

I have seen pictures of a SUPERCHARGED GT6 that looked fantastic, and worked. But it took a SERIOUS commitment of time and design to get it done.

I had a supercharged 2000 Mustang GT a few years ago and I learned a few things about the whole forced induction thing. The needs are roughly the same for either turbocharging or supercharging.

Things to consider;
1. If you run a lot of boost.. say more than 9psi, then you run a risk of killing the stock motor.. especially with cast pistons.
2. Forced induction is a heck-uva lot more responsive (and safer) with electronic fuel injection then with carberation. With EFI you can tune the air/fuel ratio for any given rpm
3. Whatever the weak point is in your drivetrain, you will find it. Be prepared to start replacing clutches, differentials. Although from what I've heard the tranny is pretty stout.
4. You'll probably have to replace the entire fuel system, including the lines. Super/turbochargers are very fuel hungry under boost

When I had it stable, my boosted Mustang was a tremendous amount of fun. At it best, I was running 394 rear-wheel horsepower.. more than a Viper or a Vette at the time, torque was equally amazing, but I can't remember the number right now. It was a centrifical Paxton unit so it built it's power in the upper RPM ranges and with my street tires, the wheels would start spinning in 3rd gear at about 5000rpm. 1st and 2nd gear were worthless under full throttle until I got my racing Yoki's. All I'm saying is you have to do A LOT of research and much prep work on all the parts that the charger will affect. It would be expensive, but awesome fun.

-Shannon

Good points.

VanHalenman, if you want air and don't mind changing things around, see if you can get a picture of the air box that Huffaker Engineering, or Group 44 had on their TR6's back in the '70's. I talked to Bob Tullius (sp) at Road Atlanta about it and he said he could feel it start to work at about 45 MPH. Wayne

I'm a proponent of Forced Induction. It's perhaps the easiest and cheapest way to get huge gains in Horsepower. Runnning a conservative 6 psi will yeild about a 40% increase in RWHP. I think turbo-ing the TR6 engine might be more difficult then supercharging, because the exhaust and intake are on the same side of the head. We have a member of our Triumph club that put an Eaton M62 roots type blower on his TR6. A lot of the parts we fabricated, such as the intake manifold, the mounting brackets, etc. He bought the blower from Eaton and runs a single big (I forget the size) SU. There used to be a kit available for this transformation. If I can locate any links, I'll post back. Anyway, the intallation turned out fine, and the car really hauls. We even hooked up an Air Fuel Ratio gauge to make sure it wasn't running lean. Geez, maybe I'll stuff a blower on the TR3...Heck, I've got one on my Miata.

Miata...who said that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

If I was going to go with forced induction on a TR, it would have to be a supercharger, not turbo. A turbo would have a lot of lag with a 6 engine, even though it may be small. Like Bob said, the turbo might spool quick on a huge 5.7L diesel, but that thing puts out many many times more exhaust pressure than a 6, due to the fact that it's enormous, and it's a diesel. Plus the stock TR6 internals can't handle hardly any boost all before they let go.

My vote would be for supercharging versus turbo - given many of the above facts.

LOL- My neighbor told me he put a nitrous kit on his old Spit setup for 50Hp and then finally 100Hp.
I guess it lasted for about 2 wild weeks!!!

toys, toys, toys.....

As Bob mentioned above, we know a chap who supercharged essentially the same engine, a 2000 cc GT6. Very, very impressive.

If you'd like to contact him, contact me offline and I'll introduce you via Email.

Great idea, best of luck in your project. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif

I have some experience with aftermarket turbos, which can work extremely well, with some caveats. You must!!!! control timing and mixture extremely carefully. If the car goes lean at any time, you will destroy pistons. If the car detonates at any time, you will destroy pistons. If you put forged pistons in and they survive the detonation, you will destroy rods.

Having said all that, you can 'abnormally aspirate' an engine safely, with the appropriate engine management. On a TR6, this would take some engineering. If you're not into engine rebuilding on a regular basis, I'd suggest an ignition computer hooked to a knock sensor, plus an O2 sensor hooked to some sort of enrichment management device. These things are reasonably easy with modern injected engines, but on a Triumph will demand some engineering.

It would be a fun project if you're up to it.

SuperCharged TR6 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif

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How would a TR6 engine respond to boost?


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Hi VHM,
If you want "real" horsepower, a turbo is the way to go. Here is a brief description of a Ford 2.3L turbo engine I built.

It put out about 370 hp at 6000 rpm & 425 ft lb of torque at 4000 rpm. An Air Research T3 turbo was used. It takes a pretty strong engine to use this much boost & everything gets kind of complicated in the control systems but it sure works.

I used forged Venolia dish top pistons for strength & to lower the compression ratio to 8:1.
It was fully ported & a 268 degree cam with 112 degree lobe centers was used. Headers with 30" primary lengths were plumbed into the turbo. Boost was limited to 20 psig with a dash controlled adjustable regulator. BTW, headers help just as much on a turbo engine.

To control detonation on 92 octane fuel, a water/alcohol injection system was set to turn on at 10 psi & up boost pressures. The water injection lowered charge air temperatures by a measured 110 degree F. This is comparable to a 55% efficient air to air intercooler.

An MSD ignition with boost retard was set at 1 degree retard per psi of boost. The block was grooved for steel O rings around the bores to reinforce the head gasket.

To get the turbo spooling up quickly, a 65 HP N2O system was triggered at full throttle, & was switch selected to cutoff at 10 psi boost or could be left on for full power. The spoolup was very quick with the Nitrous. Very little lag.

I foolishly full throttled the N2O at 2,000 rpm in third gear & was rewarded with four Z shaped connecting rods. They were fully prepped stock rods. See attached pic. This is where the Crower forged I beam rods were installed. The problem is that N2O is a constant horsepower affair. 65 hp at 5,000 rpm only adds about 53 ft/lb of torque. However 65 HP at 2,000 rpm adds 170 ft/lb of torque. Thus the bent rods. First & only engine I've had that could blow out the bottom end by just flooring the pedal. I felt that since the rods bent front to back, H beam rods would be stiffer than the Carillo pattern rods which are quite narrow front to back.

A McLeod dual disc clutch was needed to hold the torque. Lot of fun, lot of dollars, I wouldn't do it again.
D

Dave is right, a turbo, especially for street applications will almost always kill a supercharger in torque, which for the street, is more important than horsepower.

A supercharger would be easier to setup with a carb IMHO.

-Shannon

BTW, I have a Freightliner MT55 as a Snap-On tool truck. It has a 5.9 Cummins turbo diesel and I can QUARANTEE you that I know about turbo lag. Think "coffee break" as a measure of time!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Bob,
Nitrous oxide works well on diesels also. Really reduces the lag. You probably aren't street racing it though.
D

Ether. However, it tends to remove the heads from the block with GREAT authority!!!!!

Think KA-PLOW-EEEEEEEEEEE

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Ether. However, it tends to remove the heads from the block with GREAT authority!!!!!

Think KA-PLOW-EEEEEEEEEEE

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It is very effective indeed.

Better late than never. Just came across this topic. There are a few guy's left running a turbo'd TR6. The authority on this topic is a friend on the left coast , Dick Taylor. He is using a Kas Kastner original turbo charger package. I think it uses a Rayjay unit. His car is fast & he can run up to 15psi under certain conditions. His car is a 100% beautiful daily driver, usually getting well over 100,00 miles between rebuilds.
On the other hand I have been using an Eaton M62 blower for 5 years & can testify to it's reliability. I do not need an ign retard (although I have a MSD 6A with boost control) , intercooler or water injection. I limit boost to 6-7 lbs & keep my car fueled with only 93 oct. This is alot less drastic for a reliable daily driver than a motor swap & a heck of alot easier & cheaper. No need to revamp the drive train. 200 hp is the limit for the TR rear before it self destructs along with the axles.
I am definetly a fan of the Ford 2.3 turbo but it's no comparison when you compare the expense & labor involved. By using a smaller pulley the boost can be brought up to 10-11 psi which I think would be the limit I would feel comfortable with out more serious engine management. As stated I would dial out 1 degree of timing for every lb of boost & add water injection. Because I also drive my car year round I wouldn't want to risk an unscheduled rebuild for a moment of joy. The way it sits with 6lbs of boost 0-60 times are 6 sec flat. Although I have done much more with this motor the blower can be bolted on in about 4 hours and add about 40% HP gain to a stock motor. Spend more money on goodies & reap the benefits.

Mmm, i missed this thread....

I wish i had knew every part and where you got it "TrBoost" because I don't even know where to start!