What is considered driving a car too hard?

tdskip said:

Thanks for the heads-up Tom.

John, you'd better document all of these and get pictures posted here ;-)

And, with everyone here as my witness;

you said I can drive the stuffing out of your car
you said I can drive the stuffing out of your car
you said I can drive the stuffing out of your car
you said I can drive the stuffing out of your car
you said I can drive the stuffing out of your car
you said I can drive the stuffing out of your car

HA!

(what is kind of funny about this is that when John makes it out West and really gets on whatever I happen to have running at the time I always wince since I'm used to babying them and he just drives - lol)

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As the tread states, what is considered driving too hard? What would be considered bad form?

Assuming that one is coordinated, safe and drives smoothly, and this is done in the presence of the owner:

Is driving too hard shifting at the power peak or shifting at the red line?

Is it not waiting for the syncros or not waiting for the poor thing to warm up?

Is it using too much engine braking or throwing the car a little side ways to scrub off speed?

Is it when the owner of the vehicle needs to grab on to something to hold on or when you see his face wince?

Or is it more subtle like, enough speed that Tom spills his triple shot grande white chocolate mocha espresso macchiato with soy?

Driving someone else's car is a LOT different than driving your own. Without specific instructions from the owner, I would plan on driving even more gently than they do (pretend you are in a parade if necessary); regardless of how I (ab)use my own cars.

I agree.

If, after the drive, the owner immediately dials a: AAA; b: TRF; c: his/her attorney, you'd driven too hard....

To put it another way, I agree with Randall!

I can never push it to the limits because 1) the law won't allow it 2) I am more careful in an unfamilar car, 3)If I have passengers. Then again every passenger I have thinks I drive way too fast even though my cruise control is set at the speed limit and people are passing me. Aparently I also take turns too fast, but with passengers I specifically go slower, but still it's too fast for them. My mom thinks I follow too closely, but I leave huge gaps because 1) I don't gave traction control or abs, 2) it prevents people from cutting me off, 3) it allows me to coast rather than brake for optimum fuel economy.

Anyway, driving a car too hard would probably be what 45% of owners do. Drive it without any oil changes, or refills. Driving it while it's over heated. Driving with no transmission fluid. Driving in the redline for several miles, but again, that could be heat related.

I've heard of joy riding victims who's car was driven the [censored] out of and they claimed it was never the same again, so I don't know. I suppose on a really old car, autocrossing it would destroy every bushing, strut, shock, whatever and that would cause it to feel different. I know back when my mustang was a v6, when I let my husband drive it to "burn the carbon off" it would take a while before it would feel the same again. It would shift at higher rpms. But I think that's because the ecu learned the drivers behavior

Well, I, of course, agree that caution and respect are required when driving someone else's car -- unless there has been a clear directive from the owner to "flog it vigorously."

But in a more general sense, breaking the crank, throwing a rod and/or scrubbing a few teeth off of something inside the transmission all constitute "driving too hard." Anything else is "OK."

Guys - I didn't mean to cast John in a bad light here. It's not like that at all. I feel obligated to defend his honor, so a little background might help here;

John and I have known each other since 1983 and basically grew up racing cars together. We've auto crossed together and done track days. Chased each other out deserted country roads, then swapped cars and chased each other back. We were somewhat infamous for sweet taking new car dealers into letting us test drive their latest cars and return them with their brake rotors on fire and all sorts of typical stuff that was huge fun when you were a kid but makes you shake your head now...

We've also got track day plans for Fall set up already were we are going to be swapping cars.

So when I posted that it was kind of an inside joke.

UmmYeahOk said:

I can never push it to the limits because 1) the law won't allow it

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It's only illegal if you get caught !

Moseso said:

unless there has been a clear directive from the owner to "flog it vigorously."

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Obtained in writing, with two witnesses, and notarized.

When the wheels end up point to the sky.

tdskip said:

Guys - I didn't mean to cast John in a bad light here. It's not like that at all. I feel obligated to defend his honor, so a little background might help here;

John and I have known each other since 1983 and basically grew up racing cars together. We've auto crossed together and done track days. Chased each other out deserted country roads, then swapped cars and chased each other back. We were somewhat infamous for sweet taking new car dealers into letting us test drive their latest cars and return them with their brake rotors on fire and all sorts of typical stuff that was huge fun when you were a kid but makes you shake your head now...

We've also got track day plans for Fall set up already were we are going to be swapping cars.

So when I posted that it was kind of an inside joke.

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Yes Tom had a Golf GTI and I had a CRX Si that we autoXed, neck and neck in the late eighties/early ninties. Then Tom got a 1992 Sentra SER and could run 1:09s at limerock and the best I could do was 1:12 in my CRX. Don't let the dilapidated cars fool you, he's fast and trying to suck you in!

I swapped cars for a weekend with a friend years ago - at the time I had an MGB, and he had a big Olds that would pull my boat. When I got back I very quickly noticed there was mud up under the rear wheels and all kinds of grass hanging underneath. The guy was a real sheepish type and quickly buckled under interrogation.

Turns out that while at a party, another "friend" that owned a Jensen Healy convinced the first guy to let him take the MG for a spin. He lost control and toured a median strip. I told this guy I couldn't wait to drive his car (never happened). He did tell me the MGB was a "dog". That's driving too hard.

Good advice, above.

I think it depends on the condition of the car and the quality of the resto work. In any case, I would never drive an LBC hard unless I had first-hand knowledge of the condition of the car and it was in ti-top shape: engine; gearbox; suspension; brakes(!), etc.

Even if it's been meticulously restored by experts, there's always the risk of system failure, wrecking, etc.

My tuppence worth: drive it carefully, <span style="text-decoration: underline">very</span> carefully and don't thrash it unless you're on a racetrack and the owner gives you clearance.

These old cars must be treated with respect, unless you've got a mighty big budget and really good mechanical skills!

Driving a car too hard is when they show up the next day with a repair bill or you show up at their door holding a piece of their car.

Guilty 65 Mustang fastback 351. Broken driveshaft from dumping the clutch. At least we found the weak link. He flew from LAX to Guam with a new carbon fiber in his seabag.

when the rod(s) comes through the side of the block.(my own car only) I can't/don't drive other peoples cars. don't trust myself. Almost put someone elses car into a lake due to a high speed spin a long time ago after installing webers(no damage done and he still doesn't know).
IF i drive other peoples cars, I drive like a granny. SLOW, short shift, methodical, cautious.
Rob

TR3driver said:

UmmYeahOk said:

I can never push it to the limits because 1) the law won't allow it

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It's only illegal if you get caught !

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Nope, it's still illegal, you only get punished if you get caught.

A friend of mine had done a lot of work on a Fox chassis Capri. Worked over suspension and 5.0 litre etc... These cars are lighter than their Mustang cousins. He took me out and was showing me what it could do. Then we swapped seats and I was enjoying the acceleration and handling but not to the level that he showed me. Then he told me to give it the boot and see what it could do. So I did. When he caught his breath, he mumbled that he didn't know it could do those things. The most fun was showing him how to hold a four wheel power slide getting all four tires smoking.

Did the same thing to my stepdad and his 1979 L-82 Corvettte. His Corvette had laid down 425hp at the rear wheels, had a Stage II shift kit on the TH-400 trans. That is the car that I taught myself to do four wheel power slides in. After I got real good at it, I showed him, without warning him. I think his finger impressions are still in that dash. His only comment was that I would be buying the next set of Goodyear Gatorbacks (this was in 1988, I was 17).

They both still let me drive their cars. They are just ready if they ask me to see what it can do. I also have a sister that is a police officer. We have tried to scare each other before and haven't had a lot of luck. We both end up smiling like goofballs.

Before the local safety police get too upset, the only time I have done things like this have been on deserted roads, parking lots or tracks. As soon as other traffic comes into view I settle down and drive with traffic.

No, Shawn, you can't drive my car.

swift6 said:

TR3driver said:

UmmYeahOk said:

I can never push it to the limits because 1) the law won't allow it

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It's only illegal if you get caught !

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Nope, it's still illegal, you only get punished if you get caught.

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If you speed, but a Policeman doesn't see you, were you really speeding?

Commander Cody and the song "Hot Rod Lincoln" might be a good reference to use. Drive it like ya stole it! Master card usually cant be used for bail.American express?