1959 Datsun [Austin] The Daustin?

Hi guys, just joined up! My name is Scott Fischer, and what I have here is a pretty rare 1959 Datsun 1000.

Mickey suggested I post about it in this section, so that is just what I will do.

I have come here to BCF because this Datsun has an Austin heritage. Datsun/Nissan and Austin had a deal back in the 40's 50's to make A40's and A50's for the Japanese market. Toward the end of that Datsun made there own car, as far as I can tell this a unique design to Nissan, but copied much from the licensed Austin designs, and used lucas 'style' electronics.

Here is the '59. Only about 1000 were ever sold in the USA. I looked for two years to find one, and grabbed this from the high New Mexico desert. It was only registered from 1960 to 1968, and in talking with the family, believe the 21,000 miles on the odometer to be correct.




Look familiar? From my research it is a destroked (1000cc) BMC B-series 1500. Putting out a whopping 34-37hp. But I've also read that they improved some things and materials that made it more leak resistant.




Though the outside is sunfaded I am shocked how rust free this car is. Check out the dash and floors!




And here are some before and after pictures for you of the dash. When I first saw it I thought it had a lot of surface rust, but it was just dirt!
Before:

After:



There are 18 pages about this car on my regular Datsun haunt over at www.ratsun.net (I am a moderator there) Here is a direct link if you have some time to kill!
Fisch's '59 thread

I am hoping to learn as much as I can about BMC b-series engines, performance mods, etc. And learn what might be compatible to this engine, which may just be a direct copy. Nissan classed it as a c-engine and nicknamed it the "Stone Engine".

So I found out that a midget/sprite bendix works on this starter so that is a good sign for swapability!

Also I have had the engine running for about 4 seconds, and I get just about an even 120 on a cold compression test in every cylinder. Looking pretty good.


Look forward to chatting with y'all about it, and cramming my brain with British engine goodness.

Fisch,

Welcome!I get the feeling that I've seen that car
somewhere before.

- Doug

Very cool car! Welcome aboard, we'll certainly help you any way we can.

Thanks guys! Doug I've seen your name all over this board and wondered if it were you! Glad to see you here.

So my first question is that the manual I have for the Datsun says this engine had a 3 bearing crank.

Breezing Amazon for a book on how to get performance out of a b-series engine brings up a book called "How to Power Tune MGB 4-Cylinder Engines (Speedpro)" and the description of that book says "Burgess covers the BMC/British Leyland B-series engine (except the early 3-bearing crankshaft unit) as fitted to the MGB and MGB GT."

If you were going to try to get more power out of this engine, what would your recipe be? Bore up to an 1800?

How limiting is this 3 bearing crank for performance mods? As I understand it, this engine is a 1500 destroked to 1000cc. Thus 37hp. They did this because it put the car in a lower tax class.

I have a friend that says he has a 45DCOE Weber and gooseneck manifold sitting in the garage that might bolt up to this depending on the head design. Were there a lot of variables in head design from the early b-series to the later ones (as far as manifold hole shape and bolt spacing)? I am thinking this might be a good place to start chasing a few more hp?

Finally I have seen a bit on cross flow heads on b-series engines. Would that work on this early 3-bearing? Or is the 3 bearing too weak for serious mods?

Appreciate any notions you might have!

Yeah,unfortunatly,it's me.
This is the BEST place for British Car information.
It's kind of weird having a connection between
Datsun/British Cars.
I'm torn between both - being a child of the
mid 50's.I grew up with an attraction to both sides.

- Doug

The easiest way to get power is to put the original engne on a pallet in the garage and buy a 3 main MGB engine, which you can make look almost exactly like the Datsun engine.

Forget about trying to get power out of the 1000 cc engine.

And you might want to stick to a pair of SUs - you can just tell people that the twin Hitachis (SU built under license in Japan) were the competition model.

I think that is a very cool car and I'd love to see it turn up at any British car show as I'm sure people would be quite interested in it.

BTW, if you do go to a tuned MGB engine, I'd strongly suggest that you do something about those front brakes....

billspohn said:

The easiest way to get power is to put the original engne on a pallet in the garage and buy a 3 main MGB engine, which you can make look almost exactly like the Datsun engine.

Forget about trying to get power out of the 1000 cc engine.

And you might want to stick to a pair of SUs - you can just tell people that the twin Hitachis (SU built under license in Japan) were the competition model.

I think that is a very cool car and I'd love to see it turn up at any British car show as I'm sure people would be quite interested in it.

BTW, if you do go to a tuned MGB engine, I'd strongly suggest that you do something about those front brakes....

Click to expand...

I already have a deal in the works for custom fabbed disk brake bracket for the front I-beam axle!

You may be right Bill! I've been cramming info in my skull about these BMC engines. An MGB would be an easy way to go, and as a bonus I get to preserve the original engine with the low miles on it. As long as I use the Datsun valve cover, I don't think anyone would tell the difference. The biggest thing I see that is different in the japanese version (other than the valve cover, and HITACHI written on the generator and starter.) Is the design of the oil-bath air filter. Is there a british filter that looks and mounts like this?

This is a 4 on the tree shifter though. Is there a way to convert it to floor, or would I need a new transmission to go floor shift? Floor might make more room for carbs and the column linkage is kinda bulky. I am not really a purist, a weber DCOE would look nice in there!

For an engine swap I really wanted to keep it all Nissan if possible, but even a Datsun a-series would require motormount relocation and trans tunnel mods. In this case a BMC might be the least invasive (and more true) swap I could do.

Question, did the motormounts ever change on the B-series? I will attach a picture of the engine from the manual.



And just for fun. This is a Datsun L1800 I was going to put in the little guy. But we are talking mounts, tunnel mods, radiator swap, electric fan, driveshaft, and bending down a lip on the firewall to get it in there. If a MGB 1800 will fit with no mods? Seems like a logical choice.... But I still love ths engine! And it can drop in my 1971 Datsun pickup. (I hand painted the valve cover!)



Me setting the valve cover inside the 59.

I'm thinking you have an "A" series engine not a "B" series if it's a 1000cc engine.....though it looks alot like a "B".

You could be right Tony! The only refrence I could find was at Datsun1200.com. It said:
"For developing the 1000cc engine (C1) for the 1957 Datsun 110 -- under the advice of American engineers, Donald Stone was enrolled at Nissan. He was formerly at Willys-Overland. The C1 was derived from the production Austin A50 Cambridge license. He destroked the BMC B series 1500 engine, and the resulting C1 engine was called the "Stone engine". When it was later increased to 1.2 liters for the first Bluebird (Datsun 310) it was named the E1.

The Austin B-series 4-cylinder engine was available in sizes from 1.2 liter to 1.8 liter. This was too big for the Japan small-car tax class, where a 1000 cc engine was needed. Hence Stone's destroking ideas were applied."

But I get contrasting info. Some say 37HP some say 34hp. Some say a 5.125:1 rear end and some say 5.57:1!!

What was in the A40? I was sent this info too, mentioning is heavily modified from the A40:

My first car was an A40 (when I was 15), before I had a license.....it was a "woods car" for the South Jersey pine barrens (see below).

The A40 had a 1200 CC "B" series BMC engine.

The "40" comes from having about 40 horsepower (just as my A35 had about 35 horsepower when it was new).

It's quite plausible that the engine could be reduced to 1000 CCs to comply with Japanese tax laws.

Although it might be tempting to hop up that old Datsun with an MGB engine, it would also be nice to just keep it stock (inclduing the brakes) and just use it for gentle motoring. I guess I see it as one of those rare "survivor" cars that should just be kept as close to orignal as possible.

You've already got that Datsun pickup if you need a bit more speed. And if you want something with British flavout that's a bit more sporting, MGBs and Midgets are still cheap enough.

All just my opinion of course. It's your car and whatever you do with it, it'll still be a cool looking old car.

aeronca65t said:

My first car was an A40 (when I was 15), before I had a license.....it was a "woods car" for the South Jersey pine barrens (see below).

The A40 had a 1200 CC "B" series BMC engine.

The "40" comes from having about 40 horsepower (just as my A35 had about 35 horsepower when it was new).

It's quite plausible that the engine could be reduced to 1000 CCs to comply with Japanese tax laws.

Although it might be tempting to hop up that old Datsun with an MGB engine, it would also be nice to just keep it stock (inclduing the brakes) and just use it for gentle motoring. I guess I see it as one of those rare "survivor" cars that should just be kept as close to orignal as possible.

You've already got that Datsun pickup if you need a bit more speed. And if you want something with British flavout that's a bit more sporting, MGBs and Midgets are still cheap enough.

All just my opinion of course. It's your car and whatever you do with it, it'll still be a cool looking old car.

Click to expand...

Great picture! And I totally understand your feelings about retaining the originality. It isn't like I can find another very easy. The Datsun heritage museum has one they are restoring out in CA. In total I know of probably 20 that exist in the US. But am sure there is more. (There is one with a V8 in it, that has to be pretty scary...)

But the other side is, I first started searching for one because I wanted the oldest Datsun I could get in this country in order to make I throwback to the 50's hotrods, but all Japanese.

So I will try to find the best of both worlds.

My theory is, what ever I do to the car has to be pretty easily reversed if needed. But first I will get it running and driving as is (if I can) and see what it is like! Who knows, maybe I will love it and not want to change anything! (Though, even Mr. K, who brought Datsun here from Japan, disliked this car! I believe he called it the tomb stone! Or was it the 'oven'? Cause it got so hot inside of the cabin. And he was scared to drive it on the highways of America.)

But if I 'were' to put a better engine in there, The debate I have with myself is, would be better to A: Take out the actual engine preserve it as is so it can be put back to original, and put in a BMC 1500-1800 to play with. Or B: keep the original engine in there and enhance it, Bore, cam, carbs, etc. but it will still be the actual japanese engine. The jury is still out.

I am far from a purist. (Though I don't want anything that isn't Nissan or BMC under the hood. No MAzda, yota, etc. It has to be in the lineage.)

Duuuudes I got her running this evening! It is like a symphony!

Check out the video!

Excellent, well done. Another one back from the dead.

Another option is to use an "E15" or "J15" 1500 Datsun engine which should be a direct replacement for your engine is a direct swap for a british "B" block engine. I am currently making up an "E15" engine to put in my MGA just to be able to put a Datsun 510 5-speed tranny in behind it. I have MGB twin SU carbs on it (direct bolt-on) and an MGA exhaust manifold (also direct bolt-on). Everything is a direct bolt-on swap and the engine is supposed to put out around 50 or 55 horse.
The "E15" & "J15" engines used to be cheap and easy to find (I have put lots of these heads on MGA's & MGB's that had cracked heads) but are probably not so easy to find now, but probably out there.
I just bought the one that I now have about 6 months ago.
BillM

Billm said:

Another option is to use an "E15" or "J15" 1500 Datsun engine which should be a direct replacement for your engine is a direct swap for a british "B" block engine. I am currently making up an "E15" engine to put in my MGA just to be able to put a Datsun 510 5-speed tranny in behind it. I have MGB twin SU carbs on it (direct bolt-on) and an MGA exhaust manifold (also direct bolt-on). Everything is a direct bolt-on swap and the engine is supposed to put out around 50 or 55 horse.
The "E15" & "J15" engines used to be cheap and easy to find (I have put lots of these heads on MGA's & MGB's that had cracked heads) but are probably not so easy to find now, but probably out there.
I just bought the one that I now have about 6 months ago.
BillM

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Fascinating Bill! I have heard of Datsun A-series engines going into british cars but didn't realize the J and E also did. Makes sense in that they should be closer to their BMC origins. Are they a direct copy of the BMC blocks? Do the transmissions fit with no tunnel mods?

I also didn't know you could bolt a Datsun 510 (L-series) 5-speed to a J or E series engine! Funny, I had to come to a Brit car forum to learn something about Datsuns!!

Do you know if the spots the motor mounts bolt to the block on the Datsun J and E are the same as the BMC B-series?

If the E and J are close enough to the BMC B that heads can swap, I am surprised I don't hear of more Datsun owners running moss superchargers!

Scott said:

If the E and J are close enough to the BMC B that heads can swap, I am surprised I don't hear of more Datsun owners running moss superchargers!

Click to expand...

If they're all three-main blocks there could be a good reason (GRENADE!). :smirk:

And a belated welcome, too!! Interestin' project you have there, indeed.

This is exciting stuff! Billm, or possibly Fisch, do you know if there's a Datsun motor that interchanges with the BMC A-Series like the 1500 does with the B? I'm in Cyprus, which is littered with elderly Japanese cars and pickups, and I'm restoring and upgrading a 1966 Austin A40, with the 1098 A-Series engine. This one's going to be flung, and I was looking for a 1275 to replace it, but if there's a more powerful bolt-in, I'll go for that! Especially if I can get a 5-speed box with it.

DrEntropy said:

If they're all three-main blocks there could be a good reason (GRENADE!). :smirk:

And a belated welcome, too!! Interestin' project you have there, indeed.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Ahhh so the moss superchargers aren't used on the 3 bearing main? It just can't take it? I know almost nothing about supercharging.

I have read some general stuff about them though, and see that often the compression should be reduced to 9.0:1 or lower.

So this destroked Datsun has 7.0:1, and is only bored/stroked 73X5.9 should a supercharger even be considered?

I realize the cost to power gain probably wouldn't be worth it when you could mod the 3-bearing in other ways first, way before thinking of forced induction. But there is something dreamy to the notion of keeping the Datsun engine as original as possible, with out altering the bore and stroke etc, but still getting some more horses out of it with a SC?

Sorry if I am sounding like a moron here. Just trying to learn what might, and just plain shouldn't be done. And I am guessing by your post a SC would be a time bomb on this little 34 HP monster?

Also to my new friend in Cyprus, I am just learning myself what might be direct swaps between the brit and Jap engines. I am very curious too! I imagine your A40 has many of the same fitting issues that my Datsun would.

But you have me really hot on these Japanese cars all over Cyprus! I need to get over there with a big boat!!!

With low compression, a turbocharger would be the ticket...

...if you could find one suitable. Corvair, maybe? Whatever the case, would be lots of "engineering" involved.

Just breezed the Moss FAQ. The only mention it has about a SC on a 3-bearing main is that a special water pump pulley has to be made?

Is that the only reason it isn't used? Curious what the problem is with the stock pulley?

Again I am far from an expert on forced induction, so forgive me. Why would a turbocharger be better than a SC on a low compression engine like the 59?