TR2/3/3A TR3A Rear Axle Help

M_Pied_Lourd

Darth Vader

Offline

• Nov 7, 2009

• #1

OK Guys,

Thought I would take a break from the garage and post a question before I make a mistake........

First, removed the passenger side brake drum from my parts car axle that I was intending on using on my restoration and found this....

Lot of grease/oil all over the place....I am assuming the oil seal has perished or the wheel cylinder has been leaking, or a combination of both?

On the plus side, drivers side looks much better and is dry...

Ok, here is the question. I need to remove the hub on the passenger side as part of my re-build. I am trying to get the hub off but don't have the churchill tool. Here is my set up with a two jaw puller. I have applied some force but it is not budging so I thought I would come in a post to make sure that I am going about this in the correct fashion. Here are a couple of photos with the puller installed.

Any feedback would be appreciated to all the guys that have btdt.

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

poolboy

Yoda

Offline

• Nov 7, 2009

• #2

Too late for you, Chef, but we pulled one out with the complete car on the ground and a "come along" hooked to a tree. When that thing broke loose, it sounded like a shot.

 

T

tdskip

Yoda

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #3

A leaking brake cylinder will have a result like that as well. Where you going to pull the hub anyway?

 

Moseso

Jedi Knight

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #4

I worry that that 2-jaw might distort the face of the hub. It, famously, takes a lot of pressure to get those hubs apart. Got a 3-jaw? That might help.

Get it set up, (I would wrap some webbing or something around the puller legs) apply a lot of torque to the puller, and then, when it's just sitting there looking at you like, "What else you got?" rap on the end of the puller bolt with a hammer, to set up some vibration. STAND TO THE SIDE, when doing this. It CAN fly.

 

PeterK

Yoda

Offline

• Nov 7, 2009

• #5

Good way to ruin a hub is with a 2 jay puller setup on the outside of the hub. With a jaw type puller you need to support the hub - use a large bearing separator like this https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3979 behind the hub and snugged as close to the axle as possible. Will it work? Probably not. Mine took a 50 ton press a couple of hours at the machine shop. When they came apart, it sounded like a big bada boom. There's really not replacement for the Churchill tool that works as well.

 

Geo Hahn

Yoda

Offline

• Nov 7, 2009

• #6

Whatever puller/press you use (guess you know by now that 2-legged thingy isn't going to do it) thread the big nut back on the axle stopping a turn or two short of touching the hub. That will assure that if & when it does come loose you won't be launching it into earth orbit.

 

TR4nut

Yoda

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #7

Pied -

Don't do it that way. In fact, hold off a bit until you determine you have to separate the hub. I bet money you will bend the hub before it comes off with a 2 arm puller, or even a 3 arm version.

One thing, it could just be the inner oil seal, in which case I believe you can just unbolt the axle assembly as a whole and pull it out of the differential. New inner seal, and bolt it back in.

Gene Wellenstein (spelling?) is on this board once in a while - he has a great setup for separating the hub, and has offered to pull hubs if you send him the assembly. Downside is he's around Green Bay so maybe shipping will be a problem. I think there may be an old post lurking around here where he talks about it, if not I'll try to dig up what he sent me a couple of years ago, it might give you some ideas.

Randy

 

D

Deleted member 8987

Guest

Guest

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #8

And, for safety, remove the cotter key, nut, washer, then re-install the nut to the place it was (leaving the gap where the washer was).
When it pops, it stops at the nut, not in the middle of your shin bone.

I have an OLD 5-leg puller that bolts to the studs.
The local machine shops come up and borrow it from time to time.

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #9

I've been told that even the standard 3-leg puller that bolts to the studs is apt to distort and ruin the hub.

When the time comes, I plan to either build my own replica of the Churchill tool, or ship the axles to someone who has one (probably Herman, who I've heard built a hydraulic hub puller).

 

OP

M_Pied_Lourd

Darth Vader

Offline

• Nov 7, 2009

• #10

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Glad that I asked. I do have some experience with TR6 hubs that look (in my mind) a little beefier than the 3's and I know what it takes to seperate them.....

I did go ahead and removed both of the axles (hubs attached)

I noticed a couple of things.

1. No locking tabs on the brake backing plate on the drivers side. All were there(3)on the passenger side. Only one of the set of three locking tabs on the brake cylinder on the driver side as well

2. There were a couple of shims (1 Thin and 1 a little thicker) on the axle flange on the passenger side... none on the drivers side....is this normal?

3. It looks like the passenger side has had more recent service based on the colour of the bearing grease.

4. I did pop the diff cover off and drained the gear oil to inspect the gears. They look good with no visible wear/chips and found no metal in the bottom of the case.

I think tomorrow, I will take a look at my stock 411 tomorrow and see what kind of condition that is in.

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

ekamm

Jedi Warrior

Offline

• Nov 7, 2009

• #11

I would think that it wouldn't be too hard if you or some one that you know welds fairly well to build a puller that would duplicate the churchill. (first time that I've seen a pic of that) Ive used other similarly designed pullers, the idea is great and sturdy. Why doesn't a standard hub puller work. And always turn till tight, hard hammer smack, turn, smack, turn, smack............ You get the idea. And I think that while you've got it apart bearings seals and all to start a new.

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #12

ekamm said:

Why doesn't a standard hub puller work.

Click to expand...

The problem as I understand it is that the hub face needs to be supported during the pulling process, to avoid bending it too far. I suspect that allowing it to bend also distorts the central part of the hub, causing it to grip the shaft even tighter (hence the huge bang many have reported).

I've got a PDF file of the article that Gene Wellenstein wrote about the puller he made from heavy pipe flanges, PM me if you'd like a copy.

BTW, the shot above is actually not the TR3 tool, but the slightly smaller Spitfire/Vitesse/GT6 version. Only photo I had handy.

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Nov 7, 2009

• #13

M_Pied_Lourd said:

2. There were a couple of shims (1 Thin and 1 a little thicker) on the axle flange on the passenger side... none on the drivers side....is this normal?

Click to expand...

Nope.

 

OP

M_Pied_Lourd

Darth Vader

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• Nov 8, 2009

• #14

Hi Randall,

Thanks for that.

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

Twosheds

Darth Vader

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• Nov 8, 2009

• #15

M_Pied_Lourd said:

1. No locking tabs on the brake backing plate on the drivers side. All were there(3)on the passenger side. Only one of the set of three locking tabs on the brake cylinder on the driver side as well

Click to expand...

Were lock washers used under the bolt heads?

The bolts on my old TR3 racecar were loose even though the locking tabs were bent over the heads. When my axle was rebuilt, the rebuilder, who doesn't trust locking tabs, used lock washers instead.

I used lock washers on The Blue TR3.

 

OP

M_Pied_Lourd

Darth Vader

Offline

• Nov 8, 2009

• #16

Howdy Doc,

Nope, no lock washers either....It does look like they might have used some blue loctite. I don't plan on racing it again so I am just going to use the locking tabs when I reassmeble.

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

RedTR3

Jedi Trainee

Offline

• Nov 8, 2009

• #17

When I removed my hubs, since I knew I was only going to do it once and I did not want to buy any special tools, I took the hubs to a machine shop with a 30 ton press and let them do it. The machine shop knew how to get the assembly apart without damaging the hub.

 

G

GeneW

Freshman Member

Gold

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• Nov 8, 2009

• #18

Randall is correct in stating that the hub face needs a backing plate to avoid distortion while pulling. I always check the hub face for runout and "dishing" before pulling a hub. Many hubs have a "dished" surface (obvious when checked with a straight edge) that I believe is caused by the Churchill type puller. When the hubs are separated with a puller using a backing plate there is no violent separation, in fact it is hard to tell that the pieces are separated without removing the tool. As mentioned previously I am willing to separate hubs (I don't rebuild them) for anyone on the forum for the cost of return shipping. My small attempt to repay all for the good information posted.

 

Geo Hahn

Yoda

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• Nov 8, 2009

• #19

This is the bad boy I've been using. Someone made a batch of them a couple of years back -- I ended up getting one second hand from a forum member who sold his only TR:

I believe that is an Acme thread (making this the tool of choice for Wile E Coyote I suppose). Anyway, it works and appears to have been made by someone who knew what they were doing.

It really it makes no economic sense to have a tool like this with the availability of machine shops or, better yet, Gene's generous offer -- but I just like tools.

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Nov 8, 2009

• #20

Geo Hahn said:

Someone made a batch of them a couple of years back

Click to expand...

I believe that was Tony Gordon, who was teaching a shop class at the time and had his students build them as a class project.

I've got a copy of the plans they produced, somewhere.