• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

TR4/4A tr4 crankshaft-my prep-PICTURES

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
Hi all,
though i would post some pics of my crankshaft i have prepared before sending it out for balancing and nitriding. I have shown one of my stock ones next to my prepped one for comparison.
[img:center]
IMGP2070.jpg

IMGP2069.jpg

IMGP2068.jpg
 

AltaKnight

Jedi Knight
Offline
Wow, pretty!
What does "preparing" mean?
 

bgbassplyr

Darth Vader
Offline
VERY nice!
Did you magnaflux?

Jim
 
OP
T

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
Yes, magnaflux first so you know you are starting with a good crank.
This is what Kas did for his Sebring cars. His picture doesn't do justice to what he did so i posted mine. Take big hand grinder with 40 grit body grinding disc and take out all the rough surface from casting, machine marks, and the extra balance bobs. reduce the roughness with progressively finer discs to about 120 then go to sanding discs to 600. radius all corners (not the journals themselves of course) then finer sanding finishing off with polishing.
Point is to remove all surface roughness to reduce stress concentrations and as an added bonus makes the surface slippery to the oil so it doesn't cling and hopefully reduce drag freeing up a hp or 2.
About 100hrs worth of time. Kas did 4 cars like this. Just shows you how hard he worked. Blood, sweat, and ibuprofin! There are better and easier ways to do this now days but i wanted to save some bucks and do it myself.
Rob
 
OP
T

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
Maybe I'll name my block prep post (when i'm done with the block) "blood sweat and ibuprofin", but it doesn't look near as sexy as the crank. Hint, similar type of prep INSIDE the block. (boy are there ever a lot of nooks and crannies in the block!!!
R
 

Tabcon

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Wow, a work of art!

I sent my crank off to Shaftech last week to have the same thing done. They will magnaflux, ion nitride, balance, polish, turn, lighten and index it for me. I haven't received a price on all that yet, but hopefully it won't be to astromnomical.

Did you remove the plugs from your crank to clean the inside out?

I'm amazed at the amount of crap inside these stock blocks. There are more casting lumps and bumps than a teenagers face with diblilitating acne. Also, many of the passages are almost halfway closed up. I'm on my way today to get some grinding and polishing stuff to do the inside of my block. I tried it last night with a little Dremel and I estimate it would have taken about 4.25 years to complete using this tool. Hopfully, a die grinder will do better.
 
OP
T

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
I tried to get the plugs out before giving up. I plan to have the machine shop remove them and install new ones when balancing. I hope to get everything ultrasonic cleaned. no scrub brush can do what ultrasonics can do.
I use an air die grinder and a lot of different bits for inside the block. You WILL be using your demmel a lot, after the air grinder use, with the METAL bit type ends/cutters as well as others. I also spent a whack on cratex polishing bobs for the crankshaft in the really difficult spots. They are great.
I think my material supplies for the crank added up to about $100 canadian.
I have the flexible extension for my dremmel and use it almost all the time. Can't do without it. There are sharp corners and very very rough casting areas to deal with. I suggest you look at the path the oil takes from the pump to the filter then back into the engine, rather torturous with lots of SHARP bends.
Rob
 
OP
T

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
I don't want everyone to know what i've got, just you guys. So when i hopefully smoke some cars with my old 4 banger, it will really embarrass the other guys.
Especially if they see that old lump of iron under the hood!
and to quote Lance Armstrong:
"It's what's inside that counts"
Ok, enough showing off and bragging-thanks All.
R
 

prb51

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
Yup, got it. Got into a 'period' drag race with a restored 50's Ford V8 in town. When he caught up at the next light..."Is that thing stock?"....it is too (almost).
 

wannatr4a

Freshman Member
Country flag
Offline
I'm curious too how much it would cost to purchase a crank in this condittion, or one that has been fully prepared in this fashion?

I'm new. :thankyousign:
 
OP
T

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
1. you can't buy one like this- you can buy a billet crank for about 2000 british pounds plus shipping then you would have to have it sent to someone that does "super finishing" ("raby's air cooled type 4 engines" might do it for you or know where to go-check out their site)
2. you could take a stock crank to a machine shop and have the crank machined to take off most of the nasties first but would still require a bunch of hand work-say 8-16 hrs machine shop time (no hand work) at somewhere between 50-100 $/hr.
3. Add a bunch of hand work say 16 hrs before sending it out for superfinishing.
4. Convince someone to do what i did without ruining it-i would want a dammage claus.(IF, you could convince me, i wouldn't do it for less than $50/hr x 100 hrs=$5000.)It's HARD WORK. A lathe would make it much easier and quicker but i don't have one. If you have a lathe and a milling machine, you could cut down the time. this is when friends with machine shops comes in really handy.

so no matter what, it would be EXPENSIVE unless you did it yourself.

YOU HAVE TO PROTECT THE JOURNALS AGAINTS ERRANT GRINDING!!!

I wrapped my journals in thin cardboard (about 6 wraps) then a band of sheet metal wrapped around then held with bailing wire (or duct tape).I covered the 2 foot strips in duct tape first. The edge of the sheet metal must be covered to protect the sides of the jounals.

So- nothing is free.
good luck
Rob
 

Simon TR4a

Jedi Knight
Offline
Rob, the crank looks beautiful, I admire your patience and determination!
Regarding the counterweights- they look smoothly finished but it does not appear you knife-edged them for windage, any reason for that?

A suggestion for inside the block- the NASCAR boys deburr the block then paint it with a high temp paint, I think Glyptol is the name or type of paint, to improve oil drainback. A lot less work than polishing!
Great job!
Simon.
 
OP
T

trfourtune

Jedi Knight
Offline
Simon,
i think to knife edge, it should be done with proper equipment otherwise the balance would be extremely out of whack before balancing(lathe,crank grinding machine, etc)-mine will be bad enough. When i send in for balancing, i will be requesting that major balancing be done by knife edging and grinding the ends of the rod journal outers (the non journal part on the sides) first before minor balancing with holes.
I am primarily interested in strength and fatigue resistance. i do not think there are major benefits with knife edging on such a low rpm motor. Now a toyota 1600 turning 10000 rpm, definitely.8000 rpm-worth while, steet car usually run below 6000 and occasionally run to 6500, probably not.If i was going to race it full time-definitely, every 1/2 hp helps.

I just don't like the possibility of paint coming off, plugging oil galleries, the losing my motor. I always consider murphy's law- "what ever can go wrong, will!" I work in engineering, and see too many examples of murphy's. It takes perfect prep before applying paint inside a block for it to be reliable-perfect surface profile/roughness and cleanliness. Nascar teams have every piece of equipment to make it perfect-i don't. Polishing is reliable.
 

Simon TR4a

Jedi Knight
Offline
Good answers!
Nascar teams have the budget to run a qualifying engine on oil so thin they have to tear it down after 5 laps, so i suppose flushing out paint chips isn't a big problem!
You have obviously put a lot of thought into this.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
S TR4/4A TR4 Crankshaft bolt Triumph 7
Alan_Myers TR4/4A New [old] TR4 crankshaft, bearings? Triumph 3
T TR4/4A TR4 seat buffer problem Triumph 5
KVH TR4/4A TR4 Movie Showcase Triumph 0
oldbagpipe For Sale 1961-1962 Triumph TR4 Short Bubble Bonnet (hood) Triumph Classifieds 0
oldbagpipe For Sale '2' Triumph TR4 engines Triumph Classifieds 0
scottkilpatrick TR4/4A Send Unit Issues - 62 TR4 Triumph 4
E TR4/4A What Flare to put on a TR4 Brake Line Triumph 2
EvansClassicCars For Sale 1966 TR4 Triumph Classifieds 0
S TR4/4A TR4-Stromberg throttle shaft play Triumph 3
scottkilpatrick TR4/4A Difficulty Level Opinion - Differential Gasket Replacement 62 TR4 Triumph 10
scottkilpatrick TR4/4A TR4 Rear Brake Drum Removal - Basic Question Triumph 16
scottkilpatrick TR4/4A Difficulty Level with specific maintenance TR4 - Part 2 Triumph 8
scottkilpatrick TR4/4A Difficulty Level with specific maintenance TR4 Triumph 10
mctriumph TR4/4A earliest Tr4 ?? Triumph 0
Got_All_4 For Sale TR6 TR250 TR4 parts for sale Triumph Classifieds 2
D TR4/4A TR4 inner ball joints Triumph 8
jfarris For Sale TR4 Fuel Gauge with 2 Transmitters Triumph Classifieds 0
mctriumph For Sale hood for early Tr4 Triumph Classifieds 0
KVH General Tech Jacking Up The Rear of TR4 Triumph 5
Rod-H TR4/4A TR4 Body Number Plate Supplier Triumph 6
F For Sale Four Steel Wheels Triumph TR3 or TR4 Triumph Classifieds 5
KVH General Tech Heater and Vent Control Cables--TR2 thru TR4, and more . . . Triumph 3
KVH General Tech Issues with Distributor--TR4 Triumph 13
Tim Tucker TR4/4A Konig 16x7 wheels and leaf spring clearance for TR4 Triumph 5
MTr4 TR4/4A In search of a 1962 TR4 Triumph 2
A For Sale 1963 TR4 for sale Triumph Classifieds 0
Cokerair TR4/4A Searching for "How To" instructions for TR4 Tonneau Triumph 5
J TR4/4A 1964 Triumph TR4 - Not Starting/Running Triumph 3
tj_tr3_tr6 Wanted Wanted / Need / TR4 Engine Block for 62 Tim from So California Triumph Classifieds 3
mctriumph For Sale Tr4 Short bubble Bonnet Triumph Classifieds 2
K TR4/4A TR4 no start Triumph 26
L For Sale TR6 1976 (restorable project) and TR4 1966 for parts Triumph Classifieds 4
G TR4/4A TR4 Lacks Spark! Triumph 22
J For Sale Triumph TR2, TR3, TR4 CAM SHAFT FOR SALE Triumph Classifieds 0
Ericstammer TR4/4A TR4A body on TR4 frame Triumph 0
K TR2/3/3A Mystery Clutch MC? Spitfire....TR4....69-70 TR6??? Triumph 2
tj_tr3_tr6 TR4/4A looking for Machine Shop TR4 Valve Job Ventura - Los Angeles area Triumph 4
K For Sale TR2-TR4 Camshaft Sprockets...New...1/2 Price Triumph Classifieds 0
P Wanted WTB Restorable TR4 Triumph Classifieds 7
A TR4/4A TR4 Overdrive Solenoid Triumph 19
J For Sale 1965 TR4 + TR3 Parts - floors, gauges, misc. Triumph Classifieds 14
D TR4/4A Automatic transmission in a TR4 A Triumph 13
Twit TR4/4A First startup of TR4 Triumph 4
Twit early TR4 Crank Handle wanted Triumph Classifieds 0
Lotuswins TR4/4A Is this normal? TR4 gap between door and cowl Triumph 10
R Tr4 restoration books Restoration & Tools 2
M TR6 EZ EPAS Steering Column Fitment to TR4-6. Triumph 0
Kurtis TR4/4A TR4 Wiper Arm Remval Triumph 2
Twit TR4/4A early tr4 check straps Triumph 4

Similar threads

Top