TR6 TR6 front suspension rebuild suggestions

I was able to use an article by Tinster, and information from other members to rebuild my rear suspension. Now it is on to the front suspension. I know the upper control arm bushings, inner and outer tie rod ends, and upper ball joints are bad (I brought my car in for a 4 way allignment today and was told these were bad.) I don't like to fix or spend money on things that don't need fixing, but I also don't like to do things twice.I have a number of questions I am hoping someone can help me with: 1)Is it foolish to just fix the above items, or am I wiser to do the whole front end suspension? 2)What is normally involved in a front end suspension rebuild? 3)Is this something someone who is not a mechanic can do? 4)Does anyone know of a good article online that would describe a front end rebuild? Answers to any of the above questions would greatly be appreciated.
Kevin

Kevin, it ain't all that difficult. If you cannot find an online guide, just use the Bentley manual. That is what I did. Just whatever you do, don't follow their instructions for removing the front road spring! Downright dangerous. The only safe way to accomplish this is to use a spring removal tool available at all the big vendors. I bought mine from TRF. If you are too frugal to buy one, I will "rent" you mine for the 10 or so bucks postage.

Kevin-

Just my opinion, but the inner tie rods may be the most difficult part of the operation. These are the rods that are part of the rack&pinion assembly. I think you will likely need to remove the rack&pinion to service them - and hopefully you can source the parts you need. It can get costly to the point of putting in a new rack, or you may be able to find a good used one cheap. Hard to say if how much work you need to do on it until you get in there and look at what they said was the problem. The rest of the parts are easily obtainable.

Randy

The suggestion that the entire front suspension is toast is suspect. With nearly "everything" bad, you would know it from the driver's seat. If it feels OK, steering is OK, no noises or sloppiness, etc., I would suggest that you first get a second opinion from another shop. No need to rebuild the entire front end if you don't need it.

How many miles on the car? Previous receipts for front-end work? It may indeed need freshening and as others said, it's not a hard process but requires a special spring compressor and at least novice-level mechanical skills.

Thanks for the suggestions and offer to rent the compressor, Bill, but if thing go like they normally do for me, it will takes me months to complete the job and I will have had to put the springs in a couple of time minimum.

Kevin

I am definately no mechanic. Not having a reference point to go from, I knew everything was a little loose, but didn't know it was that bad. Who ever had this car before me drove it into the ground and then let it sit in storage for 20 years. I did find Tinster's article on the front end rebuild, parts 2 and three, but I can not find part 1. I sent him a pm, so hopefully I can locate it. After spending $350 on the rear suspension, and promising my wife we would be taking a cross country trip to see my youngest son this summer, now it looks like I get to inform her that I will possibly be spending twice that for the front and a whole lot more time. After reading more posts and doing some more reading, hopefully I will be able to determine just how much I should do.

Kevin

Hi Kevin - having just completed the suspension part of the rebuild you are looking at (one side back installed and working properly - or so I think anyway LOL) I might have some ideas for you.

First - it is one of these things that I stared at for a long time while I got my courage up to try it. At some point you just have to dive in and do it. Once I did that I was left with the thought "why the heck did I wait so long to do this". I'd say more than half the battle is working up the gumption to just jump in.

So if jumping in was 50%, the balance of the work was 25% taking notes and then doing test assembling to make sure I had it right, and the last 25% was fiddling with the final assembly. The last 25% when it going back together and doesn't quite line up - and I'd be willing to bet few will line perfectly up - might require some help or coaching. Expect it, expect the snags, and you'll have a good expectation of what you are looking at.

Just be aware that once it is disassembled you are committed - no rolling it on to a flatbed to have a mechanic do the work for you.


I've never rebuilt a rack, can't help you there.

You can make a spring compressor for very few $. Just get a length of 1/2" thread rod, couple of nuts, thick washer to cover the top shock mount hole, 3/8" thick plate to cover the bottom shock mount hole. Install one nut on the rod and weld or pin it so that it cannot back off the rod.
Remove the shock, install the compressor and tighten the top nut until the spring begins to compress. Unbolt the spring plate from the lower control arms and when all bolts are off, unscrew the top nut until the spring plate and spring falls in the floor. You can the make the necessary repairs (bushings, ball joint, etc.). Reassembly is the reverse of disassembly.

Kevin, I'll bet that not even all of those things are bad. Shops tend to want to replace everything in sight; which makes sense when they make money from selling you labor and parts. But when it's your labor, and your money, I feel it makes a lot more sense to only replace the things that are actually bad. And once you've been through the disassembly/reassembly process once, it will seem pretty easy.

The upper ball joint, for example, does almost nothing, so it's very unlikely it is worn out. But it's condition is hard to judge on the car when the upper bushings are bad, and they wear out very quickly (comparatively speaking). Also the inner tie rod ends actually have shims in them, that can be replaced to compensate for wear to some extent. Living inside the boots, they almost never need replacement. Also worth noting that one of my Stags came to me with an inner tie rod end assembled improperly, which resulted in a lot of play.

Less obvious, but more likely IMO would be wear in the lower outer bushings and the pin/bolt they ride on.

So to answer your question, what I would do is plan on replacing all of the bushings & the pin (TRF sells these components as kit BK2 ). If you are going to touch the inner tie rod ends (even to add shims), also replace the tab washers that lock the joint, and the boots that cover them. Everything else I would inspect and replace as needed.

Here's a (poor quality) shot of my home-made spring compressor. Having a healthy respect for the energy stored in that spring, I used 3/4" threaded rod. I would NOT tackle this job with a common "one size fits none" type compressor; only one purpose-made for Triumphs.

Oh yeah, forgot to add : When turning the cap for the inner tie rod ends (the one locked by the tab washer), be sure to hold the rack against the torque with a second wrench. I'm not sure how the TR6 rack is, but on the Stag I had to grind down the sides of a (cheap) wrench to get on the flats. If you don't support the rack, the torque gets transmitted to the pinion gear and stands a very high chance of ruining both the gear and the rack.

PPS if you may keep the upper ball joint & outer tie rod ends, I would have new boots on hand for them as well.

Tip: When you do it, do one side at a time. It will take longer but, you can always check the other side to see how things go together.

The forum is always here to help too, as you see.

Also look for a car club in your area.

Thanks for the tips and advice everyone. I learned the hard way to only do one side at a time. I also have the advantage of being able to take pictures and look at them quickly on the computer. Of course having people on the forum also helps greatly too. After all the suggestions, I think I will just dismantle one side and see what looks worn out. After closer inspection I already know I will need to replace the upper and lower bushings. I will also be removing the steering rack and go through it.

Kevin

Was anyone able to locate the Tinster article Part 1? Part 2 has great step y step, but Ican't find Part 1 or 3.

Try this;

https://www.scribd.com/doc/842185/Front-SuspensionRebuild-

did anyone mention possibly changing the Lower trunions?
would be a good Idea since they are I believe bronze.

Just a reminder the upper A Arms come off in singles and can be mixed up so mark front and rear with tape and a sharpie, I got mine mixed up and reversed and took me a while to figure out what I did wrong.

Hondo

Hondo... I believe the upper arms are marked from the factory. It's been a while since I had them out, but if I remember, they are stamped "F" and "R"...

Elliot - Just put my front suspension back on. The upper arms on my car were not marked that I could see(And I looked). Kevin - It is easy to forget which parts go where and which way, do one side at a time and mark parts front, back etc. I had not rebuilt the front suspension and it's like someone said above 50% is just getting the courage to give it a go - so just do it it's not that hard. It's a great opportunity to fix it right where maybe you don't have to fool with it for a long time (that was my thinking so I did all new nylatron bushings, upper ball joints, shocks, outer ball joints and welded in the needed reinforcing plates on the lower A frame attachment points (highly recommended)). I made a spring compressor that looks identical to Randall's, works fine.

Bruce- I don't know if you're talking about a TR4, but on the TR6 they were marked on mine.
Here's a photo that I got off "Tinsters" how-to re-do the front suspension. I placed a white circle around the Rear upper A-arm and it shows a "R" stamped into the A-arm. It might be hard to see in this photo, but it's there.

This is what I use for spring removal on my Healey. Each pan has 4 bolts so these are fitted diagonally. I'd think it would work on the Triumph for one of the center and one of the outer bolts.

Has anyone used this type on a Triumph?