TR2/3/3A TR3A Engine Wont Turn

We recently installed the dash in our TR3A project and wanted to test the electric connections. When we attempted to test the starter, we found that the engine wouldn't turn.

This engine turned fine while it was being rebuilt. It has not been turned since being installed in the car. I cannot seem to recall exactly when I last turned the engine, but it was definitely prior to the installation of the valve cover, and may have been prior to installation of the fuel pump and distributor assembly. It was not turned after installation of the flywheel or clutch.

We have ruled out the starter (we removed it). We have ruled out the distributor being the issue (we removed it, too). We find it unlikely that a foreign object has made it's way into the engine as I'm generally very careful and rotated the engine several times prior to installation in the car. We ruled out overcompression (by removing the spark plugs).

We've tried several ways to turn the engine. We attempted to turn the dog bolt with the car in neutral. We put the car in first gear and attempted to push the car.

Our best guess is that the clutch bolts or flywheel are hitting the block, preventing the crank from turning. But before tearing into it, I wanted to see if the board had any similar experiences and if so, what was the culprit.

The flywheel to crankshaft bolts are too long.
Don't ask me how I know.
Emmett

Does sound like a flywheel/clutch issue, particularly since you didn't turn the crank after installing them. I believe there was a similar thread here recently; if you do a search it may turn up, and it may relate...

Looks like it's time to pull it back out. :frown:

Ok... a little bit more information... While I was first attempting to install the clutch, I found I was unable to tighten the bolts all the way down because they were bottoming out in the flywheel holes. (The holes don't go all the way through.)

So I ordered new ones from Moss and used them to attach the clutch.

I seem to recall that there are 4 bolts holding the flywheel to the crank (and a alignment pin), and 8 bolts holding the clutch to the flywheel. I don't believe there were any other bolts in the flywheel. The crank bolts are almost certainly not the issue, and I just can't see how the clutch bolts are interfering with the block.

Maybe the oil seal bolts are hitting the flywheel?

Are there any block holes that, if a bolt were too long (by 1/4-1/2 inch), would cause the crank or cam to hit?

Yeah, this sounds a lot like Frank's problem discussed about a month ago:

Stuck tractor engine

Hi Landrum, Did you put the clutch disc in backwards? Check your clutch arm to make sure you have some free travel in your throw out bearing. Did you put too many washers on your rear seal covers so that it is hitting the flywheel? You will more than likely have to remove your transmission. Good Luck, Bill C. Mesa, Az

Brilliant... The flywheel to crank bolts. I guess the tranny is coming out tonight.

Thanks for the help!

TR4nut said:

Yeah, this sounds a lot like Frank's problem discussed about a month ago:

Stuck tractor engine

Click to expand...

Whew! Thanks - I thought I'd read that here!

Hi Landrum, I meant to say the bolts that hold the 2 piece rear seal cover. I have seen mechanics (me) place a flat washer and lock washer on the bolt that holds the cover plates on and then when the flywheel is bolted and torqued down, it will rest on those bolts and keep the motor from turning. Good luck, Bill C.

WE had a devil of a time getting the engine in my car operational.

I certainly feel for ya!!

dale

Tinster said:

WE had a devil of a time getting the engine in my car operational.

I certainly feel for ya!!

dale

Click to expand...

Nice small block Chevy there, Dale...

You know how they sometimes call old heavy parts "boat anchors"... Well, it looks like whoever last owned that SBC above took it a little too literally.

Just read the link to the thread discussing Franks stuck engine and it sounds similar to me. Hopefully it will be the flywheel to crank bolts being a tad too long. Man, we really, really don't want to yank that engine back out. I recall it turned like butter before the flywheel went on, but with both the distributor and fuel pump installed. Neither of us could recall turning it afterwards so I'm betting that's the problem.

Unlike Frank, when we tried to turn the engine it never moved even a little bit and we were concerned about putting a lot of torque on it in case something snapped. My son indicated he would pull the tranny tonite and check those flywheel bolts. I've got my fingers crossed. I mean hey, we had just finished installing the dash and had finished all the dash wiring, heater hoses, cables, everything - even the windshield washer pump and tubing. We were right at the point where we sorta thought perhaps, maybe, we could almost begin to see a glimmer of light at the end of this tunnel

Never fear, Craig - just part of the game. We've all had similar "challenges" to our restorations. Makes the end result of firing it up and driving off for the first time all the more satisfying!

Mickey

I did manage to get the transmission out last night and I was able to see that the flywheel bolts are resting on the aluminum oil seal. I'm going to assume that the oil seal is not damaged. (I never tried to force the engine to turn, so hopefully it didn't break anything.)

To correct my father slightly, when I turned the dog bolt, I got perhaps 5 degrees of movement from the crank. Not very much at all.

I find it curious that the bolts I used were too long. I reused the original bolts. The originals did not have lock washers, so when I reinstalled, I did so without them. I don't recall seeing any damage to the original oil seal, which suggests that it may have been thinner than the new oil seal flange. I suspect that lock washers will make up the difference.

Original usage was lock tabs, not washers. As I recall the discussion, using lock washers is a bad idea (although I don't recall just why offhand, something about flexing during normal operation). The recommendation was to shorten the bolts instead, and use Loctite.

Or if you want to stick with the tabs, TRF has them under P/N 56524. $1.50 each.

Randy- you are aware I know nothing of Triumph
Auto mechanics so take this with a grain of salt.

If Dim Dale removed an original fastener (or a Pedro-ized
metric fastener) I installed brand new fasteners of high quality.

I know first hand what a b-itch it is to pull a tranny.
Every fastener I installed was brand new, Roadster Factory
or American made grade #8 steel.

I have never reused a fastener in my bucket of bolts car restoration.

d

Guys,
I reused the stock flywheel bolts without the tab washers (didn't have any) and used locktite instead.
No interference issues.
Looking at a friends rebuilt TR3 motor sans tranny the flywheel bolts would have to be 3/16ths to 1/4 in. longer than stock to hit anything.
Maybe if your thrust washers were totally shot and allowed huge crank movement fwd/bkwd there could be an issue but that wouldn't be the case on a rebuilt motor.
Am I missing something?

I cannot say with absolute certainty that the flywheel bolts are stock originals. In fact, the entire engine is from a TR4A, and the transmission may be too... Making it possible that they are TR4 flywheel and clutch.

Not to get too offtrack, but be aware that a TR4A clutch&flywheel isn't the same as a TR3-4 clutch&flywheel. 4A has the diaphram style pressure plate & different mounting holes, 3&4 have the finger style. Not sure it would make any difference with the interference issue.

Then that could be your issue if the bolts were too long.
All of the TR3/TR4 trannies are interchangeable as far as I know so shouldn't be a problem (since you have the app. engine etc). No experience with the latter stuff although you should have a synchro 1st gear with the latter unit.
Have you removed the tranny yet?