WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES BRITISH CARS SO SPECIAL?

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<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">What is it that makes British cars so special?</span></span>

This is the question that I will be developing into a proposal for my Automotive Design degree at Coventry University.

My aim is to design and develop a new British car (interior and exterior), that shows all major aspects of British automotive design, both new and old. This design will then go on to be presented to Rolls Royce, Bentley, and many other British manufacturers.

So my question to you, and I hope you can help me with it, is about trends and styles that you love about British cars, both new and old...

What does a British car have that others do not?
Whats makes a British car truely British?
What is it about British car styling that makes us so passionate?
Has anything been lost in current British cars that was evident in older designs?

Any oppinions about any form of British car design would be appreciated, and hopefully we can start to get some ideas thrown about...</span>
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Welcome to the party, Ben.

And what a great project for you! I, for one, would be very interested in reading your findings.

Speaking from this side of the Atlantic, I would have to say that as our service men returned home from being overseas, they brought back with them the cars they encountered while in England that were so different from what we were developing here. The American ideal was "bigger is better", and everything that Britain had to offer flew in the face of that. I commend to your reading a little book aimed at the youth market at the time titled <span style="font-style: italic"> The Red Car </span> , by Don Stanford. That is, if you can find a copy. It was written in the early fifties, and is about a teenager who becomes infatuated with an MG TC. Great story which got many of us hooked on little British cars (LBC's).

As for their appeal, there's little to compare to the experience of driving them. They appeal to all the senses in a way that American cars cannot. The seating position, the smells (leather, oil, etc.), their sounds - all contribute to an overall experience that is quite different from any other country's offering.

Again, this is from our perspective, which will be quite different from those of yours or any others. You must remember what we had to compare to them, and once you've done that, you can understand how they would appeal.

Like I said, I'll be interested to hear of your findings.

By the way, do you have one? If not, stick around here; we'll convince you!

Best,
Mickey

Ben;


I agree with Mickey.
The British cars were absolutely a contrast to what we had here.
Plus, they were a reminder of the good times in Britain, our soldiers had while on leave.
An old Lincoln, while cool, was not nearly as much fun as an MG TC.
And with all the other cars, the story got better.

On the other hand, Maybe we're just all crazy.
WHOOPS, did I say that out loud.

Dave

As a fellow West-Midlander, (Wolverhampton) albeit a transplanted one, I can throw a few suggestions at you. Mind you, you will find that a lot of the appeal of the British car was really intangible. Let's face it, a lot of them were awful, either through lack of design, lack of development, lack of build quality, or in some cases, a combination of all three. But they all had "personality", and many of them were given names by their owners. Sometimes you were never quite sure, when you set off on a journey, whether you would make it to your destination or not, and a succesful arrival would definitely endear the car to you.

The smell of the vehicle, the feel of the controls, and how the car looked all formed an impression. To try this out for yourself, go and sit in just about any mass-produced car, but notably one of the generic products from Japan such as a Civic or especially an Accord or a Camry.

Now, sit in a Morris Minor of just about any vintage. There is a smell associated with such cars. The controls will feel delicate, even fragile, in comparison to the modern cars. The looks will definitely make an impression on you.

That's just the first step.

Now, take a look at a few modern cars whos manufacturers "get it" when it cames to cars with character. Just about any current Volkswagen product, but especially the Golf GTI or R32. The Mazda MX5/Miata as mentioned above. A BMW 3-series. The new MINI. That distinctive smell has long gone, but the feel of the controls even when stationary, and the way that each car drives, the car "talks" to you. It tells you what's going on, and even what the road surface is like if you are tuned in to such things. Direct, communicative.

The Camrys and Accords of this world isolate the driver so much that there is no communicaion any more. Power steering is a good thing, but it has to be done right. Suspension must not sacrifice response and feedback for greater comfort.

Now, styling. As a small boy I was able to identify each make and model of cars on the street. Later in life I was also able to identify the years that certain models were produced, something that was extremely useful in my time as a police officer. I was able to recover several cars on false plates as a direct result of knowing that, for example, a MkII Ford Cortina should not be displaying plates with a 'K' suffix, even though those plates did correspond with a Cortina of the same colour. Alfa Romeo, although owned by Fiat, has a distint style. BMW, love the "Bangle" styling or hate it, looks like no other.

Cars with distinctive styling, even ugly styling, combined with communicative driving characteristics, have always had an enthusiastic following.

The Citroen 2CV is a case in point. Most British sports cars would not win any beauty pageants, but their popularity is not in question. I'll bet that there is still a waiting list for Morgans!

So, a short answer to you question is that if you want to design a car that will capture the essence of British cars of the past, you need to make it distinctive, easy to use, with high quality components, fit and finish. Have something that will provide a "wow" factor, as well. In a current VW you will notice that the gauge faces and radio illuminate blue, with the needles on the instruments and all other controls being in red. THAT is a "wow" factor, silly as it may seem.

I believe that the British car industry started to go downhill once the engineers who ran the companies began to give way to the accountants.

and I wish you luck in coming up with a concept/design that doesn't look dated while not also looking like the cookie-cutter cars now being produced. When many of us older owners were introduced to these little "toy" sized cars in the late 50's they were uniquely styled, fairly rare, and made the youthful statement "look at me". Could that be why we still have them?

<span style="text-decoration: underline">What does a British car have that others do not?</span> A soul....a feel that its alive...there's something there that I can connect with; its like the car is so driver-friendly that I wear it as part of myself.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Whats makes a British car truely British?</span> The smell of its interior; the sound of its engine; just enough room to be comfortable but not enough to be excessive; the ability to feel the road beneath you and the wind blowing over you.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">What is it about British car styling that makes us so passionate?</span> Timeless, classic lines that evoke era's past; a flow of the stylist's vision from front to rear, around the car & back again...there's nothing to make one feel the stylist just ran out of time or paper & whacked the rear end off, for example.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Has anything been lost in current British cars that was evident in older designs?</span> Everything above & more!

To echo those above, what an exciting project!!

From a personal point of view, the appeal to me for British cars, and we must be frank here, these are primarily cars of the fifties, sixties and perhaps the early seventies, is the fact that the designs were so basic and derived from a "cottage industry" mentality.

In operating these cars, one virtually "wears" them. The sense of control is one of becoming a part of the car, of having that "seat-of-the-pants" connection with the machine, a responsiveness uninsulated from the feel of the road.

The simplicity of design and engineering invites the owner to become a home mechanic, to tinker with his/her machine and thus develop an intimate knowledge of it. Ownership of these cars is akin to the relationship a cowboy had with his horse...you don't just get on and ride. You have to care for the beast. Give it love and attention and it will return in kind. Ignore it and suffer the consequences!!

What a perfect description. They analogy of the cowboy and his horse is spot on. You don't just jump in and go to the supermarket. Instead, you experience the ride, become almost one with the machine. I have owned several American, German, Italian and British cars over the last too many years but by far the most "personal" has been the British. Another feature that I think endears them to me is the fact that most were, at least initially, cottage industries, developed by a hand full of enthusiats instead of giant corporations. They literally put the hearts and souls into their creations.

well, I'm going to go out on a limb and say nothing. They aren't special.

British Cars are nothing more than a subset in the classic car hobby and not the largest subset by a long shot. Any owner of any classic car will use virtually all of the adjective used in these posts to describe their own Marque. Even adjectives like cute and quirky, if they don't apply to muscle cars still can apply to Italian, French and occasionally German cars (Goggomobile.)

There are a couple of things that give LBC's an advantage.

1. They were cheap and often convertibles - making them an affordable and interesting first car - often the car we go after in later years.

2. They had a reasonable dealer network in North America then - unlike Fiat, Citroen etc. and they have an excellent parts network now - unlike Fiat, Citroen etc.

3. They were different - in looks and handling - making them a good choice for people who wanted something different - though Beetles ticked this box even better.

4. The European cars with dealer networks tended to be expensive - Mercedes

5. They come from another English speaking country - making them more accessible.

6. They are an interesting alternative to North American classic cars - smaller and cheaper to buy - though not always restore.

7. They are quirky - oversquare engines/ odd styling etc.

BUT while that makes them well positioned and even unique, I'm not sure it makes them special even though I love my LBC. And, my love for LBC's ought not diminish others' love for their cars

I'll hide now

So, I've been mulling this over all day, thinking back and forth against my experiences with British crs as well as history and some present day examples. I think the question is fantastic, but is also much better than a breadbox.

The first thing that popped into my mind was the little Austin 7, and I think much of it really begins there. It was the car that really launched and stabilized England as a car producing nation. That tiny little 7 went on to be the first car produced by companies like BMW and Nissan, as well as being produced and/or sold almost everywhere in the world. Now, not only did this car bring the concept of owning and driving a car to the masses, but it also helped spawn the automotive coachbuilder industry (admittedly, these companies had been around forever building horse based carriages, but it was a decisive shift). And soon the base chassis and engine of the Austin 7 was being found in many different bodies sold by different manufacturers. Here we see the introduction of a rebodied Austin 7 called the 1927 Austin Seven Swallow (produced by the Swallow Sidecar company which eventually becomes Jaguar). Along with this the continuous process of automotive innovation in England was born.

At the same time the Morris car company is fighting Ford for market share, building larger scale cars on the scale of american cars. While being significant sellers, they were still heavily influenced by the american cars. What this did introduce was the concept of utilizing many different suppliers to generate a car. When a Morris was made it wasn't so much built as it was assembled. This introduced what I would term as the concept of "frugality of design." Rather than waste excessive amounts of time reinventing the wheel, so to speak, it was a matter of taking what existed and was good (and availabel at the right price) and using it as a basis for moving forward. And then, from almost nowhere, sawns Morris Garages (MG) a dealership who built themselves up by taking these Morris cars and building custom sporting versions.

From here, the stage is set for the automotive industry in England: small, able. relatively inexpensive cars built on a process on continuous innovation and garage-works inventors. At this point things are interrupted by World War II. However, the US Army Jeep is introduced to Britain and adopted by locals for use out in the farmlands. Here is the generation of the Land Rover. Reusing, yet again, existing designs, but in a novel way.

After the war we see the creation of Lotus, yet again based on an Austin 7. Here we are introduced to one of the great geniuses of British Automotive engineering, Colin Chapman. And what does he do with that little Austin 7? Modifies it, uses innovation to continually improve the handling and suspension of the lotus cars. Then we see the entry into motor racing and suddenly the automotive racing world changes. Why? Light, well handling cars.

During the time in between this and the horrors of the seventies we see this continue in the many diffeent manufactures of cars within England. We have one crazy guy decide to turn an engine sideways to be able to manufacture his design, the Mini. This unassuming little car provides one of the most radical engineering innovations in the history of auto manufacture.And all through this time, there's one thing that remains the same, quality of body design. It seems that british cars are almost their own secific art form or aesthetic. There's just nothing like the visual designof a british car, and it's not evident anywhere else in the industry until the Japanese auto makers start cloning the designs (e.g. Datsun Fairlady Roadster).

When we fast forward to the present day we see this still there in the classic manufacturers. We still have our new Lotus cars: light and extraordinarily great handling. The new Noble cars: Beautiful british design with the Mirris mindset of assembling prefabricated bits. The new MArcos: again, beautiful design, this time with Rover power. And of course, the big boys: ASton Martin, Rolls Royce and Bentley.

And this is only a fraction of the equation. It doesn't cover racing and the american influence (the AC Brisol, John Player Special, Caterham 7, etc). It doesn't cover the true luxury cars: Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Bentley. And finally, it doesn't adequately cover the true impact of the British car on the rest of the world. Heck, I didn't even get to talk about my favorite ugly duckling, the Jensen Healey.

Jody

What makes British cars so special?

1) Like American cars at the time they were generally simple in construction and simple and cheap to repair. All other European cars were much more difficult to repair. This made them very popular in the US.

2) Not only were they simple, but also small and fast.

3) Generally speaking British designers were only marginally less talented than the Italian designers with respect to aesthetics. The Germans and French were no where near as aesthetically oriented in the 1950s and 1960s

4) Popular 50's and 60's British cars were made for <span style="text-decoration: underline">driving as leisure</span>, i.e. for drives in the country. By comparison for the Italians cars were made to look at and admire, French made cars to show off their engineering skill, and Germans made cars that got you from point A to point B with as much utility as possible. It was only the British at the time that really understood that driving was a leisure time activity.

5) British cars let the average person enjoy spirited driving safely. In fact, in the 1950's and 1960's you could argue that British Cars generally were the safest to drive in the entire world, as most British Sports cars were fitted with Disk Brakes at the time. American, Italian, French and German cars typically were not.

6) Leather interiors!

7) Wood paneling

8) The sounds!!



*** British cars were made for the driver to enjoy. ****

Man, how do I rate this topic....there's a book in here already!!

What makes classic British cars so special are things you can't put into new cars. You can use styling cues all you want, but other than a visual resemblance there will be little of the same feeling. If you really want to make a modern car with the same "special something" that the older ones have, you will have to introduce noises, smells and sounds that are not possible with modern automotive manufacturing techniques or safety regulations.

Honestly, how will you explain to the various safety administrations why you left out critical firewall components in order to improve the way the engine sound resonates through the steel and into the cockpit? What about the smell of toxic oils and other lubricants and byproducts that work their way into the cabin through ill-fitting body panels and loose tolerances?

Modern cars are different because they have to be. As has always been the case with such things, times change and so does technology. The new is accepted as the normal, and the old is all but forgotten. Pity.

Laws and regulations prevent anyone from mass producing a car that has what I like about LBCs in it.
To start, my favorite LBCs are the older ones. TR2-3, MGT series, and MGA, Morgans, Jag KX120 and older. They were high technology when introduced, with things like disc brakes and rack and pinion steering that makes most of them be still streetable today without thousands of dollars in upgrades to get them to "keep up" with modern traffic, But they are still simple, mechanical machines. There are no "black mystery boxes" that hold untold microprossers that can only be fixed by replacement. virtually all the parts can be repaired, or adjusted or rebuilt when they start to go wrong. and most processes can be achieved in your own garage.
The air about british cars is what holds me to this genra of car. looking through my list of favorites, you can pick up a theme. they don't have drivers compartments, they have "cockpits". they very much remind me of old biplanes. of heroic WWI and WWII flying aces. the feel of the simple interior. the body hugging low-back seats the leather trim around the cockpit opening. old LBCs do in fact have a distinct smell. they exuded a bond between man and a mechanical machine. You smell of "machenery" after being around them. the sights of aluminum and brass on the carbs and other parts, the sound of gears meshing, exhaust rumbling (especially when its just right after setting up the carbs) they are responsive on the road, unlike the big boats America was producing at the time. thay were relativly fuel efficient, they were open air. They weren't loaded down with added on power accessories.
As for styling, you cannot replicate on a computer what just "feels good" when a car is shaped. I invite you to spend some time in a body shop that works on old LBCs. spend some time sanding on the bodies. especially cars like Jaguar KX 120, or an E-type. or an MGA or a TR3. close your eyes and just feel the shape of the fenders, or the shape of the front apron or the rear decklid. It's really plesant to follow the lines on those cars. the lines are almost human. they flow and blend. they are art. not science. to heck with wind tunnels. Do that same thing on any modern car, and It's not pleasing. there are abrupt angles, and weird perportions that are rooted necessary technology. not art.
Phew... I think I'm done...

Camshaft wrote a wonderful essay called "Happiness is a warm MG" but I can't seem to find it...I remember it really captured the spirit of these cars and the joy they bring on a beautiful day...not only to the driver but to the people you pass who all seem to smile and wave....

did you read the first paragraph here by prb51 recently in the triumphs? its hard to describe feel. it's like driving a biplane down the road. you can't do that but we do.

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/topics/507884/Old_cars_and_100_mph#Post507884

<span style="font-size: 11pt">Wow, that was quite a response!

I’m grateful that some patterns are already starting to become clear…

Everyone seems to have fallen in love with ‘the drive’ of the LBC’s: Their rattles, their squeaks, and their smells, everything that gives the vehicle some character. And I can relate. My car has a few ‘flaws’, parts that rattle and squeak while driving, but they do add character to the car, and I know I would miss them if they stopped. Sadly, as ‘Steve S’ said, these cannot be in the cars of today. There are too many regulations that prevent it. But there is nothing that prevents other aspects of ‘the drive’ being reinterpreted…

I really like Bugimike’s description of ‘wearing’ the car, and how when you are in it, you are one with it, feeling what it feels. This could be developed into something interesting in my design. The idea of focusing the front of the car on the driver could allow a great link between man and machine, wrapping the controls around him, integrating the driver into the vehicle as opposed to placing him into the it. Allowing this more physical connection with the vehicle would hopefully be able to bring back some of the feelings that are lost within most current British cars, re-developing that long-lost ‘soul’…?

Another comment that has been on my mind was ‘Tony Barnhill’s’ about having ‘enough room to be comfortable, but not enough to be excessive’. I expect my outcome of this project to be based on a ‘British Sports/Luxury Design’, simply because it allows the most opportunities to express my proposals, and as a luxury car I would have assumed that more space (especially in the back) is better, but I must admit, I like the idea of being ‘cosy’, without this excess room.
The lead interior designer at Ford is quoted saying “Space is the greatest Luxury”, and that may be true in American automotive design where the cars are much larger, but maybe for a truly British design, this space should be better packaged, kept to the minimum that can be comfortable?

I love this idea of reinterpreting the driver experience, and I will hopefully be able to create a design that is visually British inside and outside the vehicle to accompany it. With your love of some of the original British cars (and some of the new ones?), what do you think of some of these examples of current British car design…?

In my opinion, these 3 cars show good current British sport/luxury. Your likes and dislikes would be really helpful to identify what British trends enhance, or even prevent, a cars 'British' appearance…

Bentley Brooklands, 2008
Brooklands Exterior
Brooklands Interior

Aston Martin DB9, 2009
DB9 Exterior
DB9 Interior

And, showing the more radical side, Jaguar C-XF, 2007
(Does this still look 'British' to you?)
CX-F Exterior
CX-F Interior

Thanks guys (and girls), the stuff up to now has been great, and highlighted many areas I would not have otherwise thought of.

Hopefully we can keep this going, and feel free to keep discussing what makes a car British. Developing that identity is just as helpful to me as these examples...

- Ben

<span style="font-style: italic">(And in answer to ‘Mickey Richaud’s question, I don’t own a British car (yet - don’t ban me! ), I have a Golf GTI. However, when I finish with uni, there will be an original mini cooper project starting! … Hopefully </span>)</span>
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BenQ said:

<span style="font-style: italic">(And in answer to ‘Mickey Richaud’s question, I don’t own a British car (yet - don’t ban me! ), I have a Golf GTI. However, when I finish with uni, there will be an original mini cooper project starting! … Hopefully </span>)[/size]
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Click to expand...

Again, fair warning: Hang around here long enough, and you'll catch the fever! :wink:

My opinion of the 3 cars you used as examples: Japanese boxes! American copies of Japanese boxes! British sellout to Japanese boxes! All the newer 'luxury' cars seem to be paying homage to Japanese boxes - just with lines.

I sat in a new Jaguar & it feels like you're isolated in a cocoon! There's no way I could ever 'feel' the road in that thing nor is it designed for one to do so.

To evoke the feelings we have when climbing into our LBC's, you're gonna have to go with a small, 2-seater, open car that's nimble enough for us to go with the road while allowing us to become one with the car....you might be able to do it with a small GT-type car but it would have to contain the same attributes as the open car.....& it wouldn't be a luxury car; it'd be almost bare bones.

Why does everybody think a car has to be a 'luxury' vehicle? Bet there's more of a market for smaller cars like we love than the larger luxury vehicles.

Remember what Ray Croc said, "One hamburger at a time builds an empire." Same basic philosophy of Sam Walton. (But, then, those are American business icons.)

I agree with Tony. Those three cars are much more the saloon luxury type of car. And, personally the third one looks like a mercedes on the outside and a crappy Los Angeles night club on the inside (blech).

These really don't follow the sorts car enthusiast mold. If that's the type of car you want to create, go ahead, but like Tony, I think we have too much luxury.

Instead, look at the Lotus Exige 240 S https://www.lotuscars.com/exige_s240.html

Now that's a modern british car that I can go for. Small, light, handles well, and is smokingly fast. And it has very lttle in the way of options.