Welding newbie

Hey guys, I am thinking about buying a DC Arc welder for my B-day this year and have always been interested in the process. Although I have been doing a little research on stick welding and am not sure if it is appropriate to use for automotive applications(sheet metal, spot welding etc..). I am new to the welding trade so I want to practice and learn with something cheep.

Thanks for reading,

Joe O.

Mig welder. It will work much better than stick on light metal as well as fairely substantial stuff.

Hi Joe, and welcome to the forums!

Arc welders are not ideal for most automotive applications, as you will have a very hard time not burning straight through thin sheet metal. It would also be quite hard to do very short, controlled welds (i.e. spot welds). They do make spot weld guns that you can run off your basic arc welder, tho. More generally, arc is great for repairing thicker stock, like frames.

Some still swear by oxy-acet, but I would venture that the best all-around DIY home setup is a simple & relatively inexpensive MIG (GMAW) setup. Easy to use, fairly versatile. If you want to see what the learning curve looks like, have a look at my VW resto thread (in my signature).

I'm sure other will chime in with their opinions. Again, welcome!

If price is critical, you can pick up a flux-core wire feed welder at Harbor Junk or Northern Tool for about $175. This is ideal for practice and backyard projects. But the flux-core wire makes bubbly, ugly welds with lots of splatter, so it is probably not ideal for welding on your car. Much better than a stick welder, but still not the best. Also, with Harbor Junk it is a gamble on how long the welder will last.

If you can spend $500-600, you can get a a low end Miller or Lincoln MIG welder. You will then need to spend another $100 on gas. This is the best way to get "easy" strong, pretty welds.

If money is too tight for that, you may be able to pick up a Miller or Lincoln wire feed flux-core welder which you can later convert to a gas welder. I think that will set you back around $300-400. It's much cheaper in the long run to buy the full gas set-up out right, but the Miller/Lincoln flux core set-up will be much cheaper in the long run than buying the Harbor Junk welder.

You might want to look in the Tools forum here on BCF. Fellow member AweMan posted some thoughts on welding that might be helpful (he's a retired welder). Also quite a few threads on various types of welding there.

Everything I've read pointed towards getting a MIG with the gas option. A small 110V welder seems to be a good first choice if your budget is tight -- [plenty of power for sheet metal work.

I love the Lincoln gas/wire feed 110v MIG setup(Weld Pak 100) I got from a friend. Works great, short learning curve and all stuff available from the local ACE except gas. I've never replaced a panel, but I've used it on a thousand little things on three different cars. For me its been the perfect home-hobby size tool. I did use it to fabricate two sets of headers and several turbo related manifold bits so I guess its not a wimpy toy.
I was lucky to get a deal from an upgrading friend, but you could check around for used?
Gas, stick, for LBC sheet metal? Not good.
If you're the DIY type, build your own TIG welder with a car alternator from a web page:
https://www.hotrodders.com/forum/my-diy-tig-welder-77730.html

TIG is supposed to be the very best, but least affordable way to weld.

Glen

I found this site useful:
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

The cheaper MIG flux core is fairing to be the appropriate welding system of choice for my budget. Plus I am not looking at doing any large amounts of welding, just want it to learn on and practice for small things at first. I am not planing on doing any major welding to the MG prior to completing college (about a year or so left). For now there is an old 73 Peugeot moped sitting around just waiting to be practiced on.


Thanks for the help guys you filled in a lot of gray areas, I'll be sure to let you know what I decide.

-- Joe O.

Hi Joe,

No personal experience, but a buddy of mine SWEARS by the anti-splatter spray, when using flux-core. Says it cuts right down on the mess, and makes for much smoother welds. You may want to check it out at the usual suspects - Harbour Frieght, Eastwood, your local welding supply store etc.

I am no expert welder but I have done some at work and on cars. I have a cheap 110v flux core welder that I have been using and working with for several years. The one advantage I have found for the flux core is that you can back off from the weld with the tip if you start burning through the metal and prevent burn through since the flux is in the wire. You can't do that with the gas ones because of the gas pocket around the tip.

Useful Welding Links that I picked up

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

https://www.millerwelds.com/education/basicMIG/index.htm

Over and above the cost of the Welder getting setup with small 75/25 tank that can be refilled locally from Welding Supply place cost me $125.00 plus tax. Refills $35-40.00

I opted for inverter TIG when I chose a welder. It cost a bit more when I bought my equipment. Today, there are more choices from more sources and the price of an entry level TIG can compare with some of the low end Lincoln and Miller MIG units. TIG probably has a bit more of a learning curve but as stated above, with proper preparation the welds are very clean. (However, inverter TIG is DC only and not suitable for Aluminum).

Do not forget to watch eBay for welding equipment, particularly if you can find a seller close to you so you can examine the equipment. A lot of people buy equipment for one or two specific projects and then decide to sell their welder. Deals can be found.

Some will protest at what I'm about to say but I stand by it. Watch Harbor Freight. They routinely put their auto-darkening helmets on sale. I have had very good luck with mine. In fact, my Harbor Freight helmet is a replacement for the problematic one I purchased from Arc-One.

Whatever you buy, find some used panels (perhaps from a local body shop) and practice your welding A LOT before welding on your car.

so what's the advantage of TIG vs MIG vs Flux Core? (he asked innocently)

Well...

Flux-core is a variation of MIG and those who use it will point out that the initial equipment is less expensive. However, the welding wire costs more. One advantage I often hear about flux-core MIG is that if there is any breeze, it works better outside than MIG with a cover gas. A complaint about flux-core MIG is that the welds are messy.

Traditional MIG uses a cover gas. The equipment costs more a and you have the consumable gas to buy. However, most people I've talked to tout the better controls on the equipment and the better welds that can be produced.

TIG will produce the cleanest welds but the equipment cost is the highest. It is very well suited to sheet metal and when you're joining materials of different thicknesses. Since any filler material added to the weld is literally fed in by hand, TIG welding isn't quick and it's not the choice for building heavy welds on thick material... at least not on a routine basis. TIG is also preferable for joining stainless steel and in AC mode, it is routinely used on aluminum. (However, there are MIG welders that can produce good results on aluminum).

I'm sure others will expand on my very limited observations.

So, for myself - I plan on doing some welding for the Healey.


I have an arc welder (cheap 110/220V switchable Harbor Freight) that I never learned to use, and I am thinking that I'd like to pick up a MIG welder. I could never get the arc welder to run a nice bead, but I also was running it at 110v. This summer I plan on wiring the garage for 220.

MIG will work if I want to do sheet metal welding, manifolds, etc. I know without a doubt my outer rockers will need replacing, and I wouldn't be surprised if the inners do too. For this, would a spot welder also be handy? If so, do they have some type of universal kit that could be fitted to my arc welder? Should I just look for a relatively cheap one (again, Harbor Freight has them for $160).

It'll be about 1 year out before I rip the car down again, and I know I'll be sinking money into it for parts and upgrades. If I can start purchasing the equipment I need here and there, it'll be much easier on the wallet then buying all the tools AND resto parts at the same time. I'll keep the wife happier too /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

While our cars may be full of factory spot welds, most of us who do our own bodywork seldom have the equipment to produce real spot welds for our repairs. A more common method (for panels that overlap and were originally spot welded) is to drill a hole through the "top" panel and clamp it to the lower panel. The hole is then filled with weld forming a "plug weld". You can buy spot welders from Harbor Freight but I have only heard people give them mixed reviews. Keep in mind that the pincer tongs on a DIY spot welder are typically generic without any complicated shapes. They may not reach all the areas you'd like to spot weld.

Eastwood and J.C. Whitney both sell a U.K. manufactured "spot weld" tool for arc welders. It works by applying pressure with a carbon electrode on the top panel (of two panels clamped together). You fire the spot welder and watch/wait for the right glow to develop and I believe at that point you're supposed to squeeze the trigger further to lift the electrode to create an arc which melts the two panels together at the point of contact. I tried one several years ago but was not happy with the results.

Hi Kevin,

Unless you're planning on making your living restoring cars, I wouldn't suggest investing in a spot-welder. Spend the money on a better, automatically adjusting helmet, it will have more effect on your weld quality! "Spot" welds can be replicated with rosette welds quite easily. That is, where two panels are flush, you can drill or punch a hole in the top piece, and weld the two together as you fill the hole, with a MIG. This is how I've reattached the floors and inner & outer rockers and rear frame rails on my VW. Here is an untouched example, which can be made to look even more 'finished' with a little grinding.

Maybe a dumb question... but here goes.

Isn't a line weld (don't know the correct term) better than a spot weld? Aren't spot welds a manufacturing process that sacrifices strength and rigidity for speed? Wouldn't your car be stronger if you used a traditional line weld over a spot weld?

Spot welds, in this application, are "tougher" than line welds. They give a larger HAZ (heat affected zone) per distance of welding than a line weld, therefore stressing the HAZ less.

Cool, good to know guys.

So, I think the 3 biggest pieces of equipment I should plan for will be a compressor, MIG, and a small blast cabinet.