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racing girl
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What do the three insignias of BMW, Mitsubishi and Mercedes have in common?
Answer tomorrow. Maybe!
RG
Answer tomorrow. Maybe!
RG
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Props!
rulle7
Jedi Knight
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BMW's insignia is of a propeller, for sure.
Mercedes' I'm not sure,
but Mitsubishi's insignia is NOT a prop.
Mitsu=three, ishi=stone/jewel (the 'b' in ...bishi
is purely phonetical)
"Three Diamonds" tend to be the most common translation of Mitsubishi.
Just my two yen worth.
Mercedes' I'm not sure,
but Mitsubishi's insignia is NOT a prop.
Mitsu=three, ishi=stone/jewel (the 'b' in ...bishi
is purely phonetical)
"Three Diamonds" tend to be the most common translation of Mitsubishi.
Just my two yen worth.
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by racing girl:
What do the three insignias of BMW, Mitsubishi and Mercedes have in common?
Answer tomorrow. Maybe!
RG
<hr></blockquote>
I know! I know! They all belong to cars I don't own!
What do the three insignias of BMW, Mitsubishi and Mercedes have in common?
Answer tomorrow. Maybe!
RG
I know! I know! They all belong to cars I don't own!
Mark Beiser
Jedi Warrior
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lawguy:
Um....they all appeared on stuff we used to like to drop bombs on 60 years ago?<hr></blockquote>
Um....they all appeared on stuff we used to like to drop bombs on 60 years ago?<hr></blockquote>
Trevor Triumph
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True, my father's generation did drop a lot of bombs on the factories but I believe the three companies built aircraft. Mitsubishi built the Zero- apparently a very good fighter plane. It was superior to American aircraft at the begiinning of the war. Eagerly awaiting your reply. T.T.
Mark Beiser
Jedi Warrior
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Trevor Triumph:
Mitsubishi built the Zero- apparently a very good fighter plane. It was superior to American aircraft at the begiinning of the war.<hr></blockquote>
Mainly, if not only, because it had no armor protecting the pilot!
Mitsubishi built the Zero- apparently a very good fighter plane. It was superior to American aircraft at the begiinning of the war.<hr></blockquote>
Mainly, if not only, because it had no armor protecting the pilot!
The Zero had way better handling than the American opposition, especially early on. This was due in large part to the plane's light weight. The F4F and P-40 simply couldn't stay with a Zero in a turning fight. On the other hand, it didn't take much to blow up a Zero once it was in your sights, as opposed to the American machines, which could take a lot of punishment.
This sort of Chapman-esque lightness fetish lasted throughout the war-Japanese fighters usually had great handling dynamics and were usually pretty delicate.
To the best of my knowledge, neither BMW or Mercedes Benz built actual airplanes, but they did both build aero engines. Versions of the DB 601 (I think) powered the Bf-109 throughout the war. The 601 was also built under license in Japan by Kawasaki for the Ki61-I, an airplane that bore such a striking resemblance to the Messerschmitt BF109 that Allied pilots encountering it for the first time swore they'd just fought the German plane in Japanese markings.
BMW built the 801 radial engine, that powered Kurt Tank's design for Focke-Wulf, the Fw-190 in it's earlier forms. This was because Messerschmitt had first pick of the DB engine for his fighters.
Having typed all that, the connection will be something like motor scooters or they all appeared in "The Fast and The Furious" or something.
-William
This sort of Chapman-esque lightness fetish lasted throughout the war-Japanese fighters usually had great handling dynamics and were usually pretty delicate.
To the best of my knowledge, neither BMW or Mercedes Benz built actual airplanes, but they did both build aero engines. Versions of the DB 601 (I think) powered the Bf-109 throughout the war. The 601 was also built under license in Japan by Kawasaki for the Ki61-I, an airplane that bore such a striking resemblance to the Messerschmitt BF109 that Allied pilots encountering it for the first time swore they'd just fought the German plane in Japanese markings.
BMW built the 801 radial engine, that powered Kurt Tank's design for Focke-Wulf, the Fw-190 in it's earlier forms. This was because Messerschmitt had first pick of the DB engine for his fighters.
Having typed all that, the connection will be something like motor scooters or they all appeared in "The Fast and The Furious" or something.
-William
Trevor Triumph
Jedi Knight
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Thanks for the above message. Wow! members of this forum know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff. T.T.
OP
racing girl
Jedi Knight
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Well, scooters it's definitely not, but that's a good one!
The connection is airplanes & airplane engines, all three companies built either one or both before they turned their attention to cars. The planes that attacked Pearl Harbor were powered by Mitsubishi engines.
As for the insignias, I was told that they are all based on props. BMW's is supposed to represent a spinning prop, which is why it's two colors - it's supposed to look a bit blurred. The other two are supposed to look like very stylized props, Mercedes' being very thin and elegent and Mitsubishi's being somewhat chunky. I haven't found anything that explains the meaning of "Mitsubishi", as noted by Carl, so I will play devils advocate on this one! Let's just say that to the best of my knowledge all three insignias were inspired by propellers.
RG
There's also one other European motor manufacturer who built jet planes before they built cars, they might even still build the planes, I don't know. Who are they???
The connection is airplanes & airplane engines, all three companies built either one or both before they turned their attention to cars. The planes that attacked Pearl Harbor were powered by Mitsubishi engines.
As for the insignias, I was told that they are all based on props. BMW's is supposed to represent a spinning prop, which is why it's two colors - it's supposed to look a bit blurred. The other two are supposed to look like very stylized props, Mercedes' being very thin and elegent and Mitsubishi's being somewhat chunky. I haven't found anything that explains the meaning of "Mitsubishi", as noted by Carl, so I will play devils advocate on this one! Let's just say that to the best of my knowledge all three insignias were inspired by propellers.
RG
There's also one other European motor manufacturer who built jet planes before they built cars, they might even still build the planes, I don't know. Who are they???
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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I'm gonna jump out & say "North American Native religious symbols"...in other words, Indian religious symbols
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by racing girl:
The connection is airplanes & airplane engines, all three companies built either one or both before they turned their attention to cars. The planes that attacked Pearl Harbor were powered by Mitsubishi engines.
As for the insignias, I was told that they are all based on props. BMW's is supposed to represent a spinning prop, which is why it's two colors - it's supposed to look a bit blurred. The other two are supposed to look like very stylized props, Mercedes' being very thin and elegent and Mitsubishi's being somewhat chunky. I haven't found anything that explains the meaning of "Mitsubishi", as noted by Carl, so I will play devils advocate on this one! Let's just say that to the best of my knowledge all three insignias were inspired by propellers.
RG
<hr></blockquote>
Does that mean I win?
What's the prize?
The connection is airplanes & airplane engines, all three companies built either one or both before they turned their attention to cars. The planes that attacked Pearl Harbor were powered by Mitsubishi engines.
As for the insignias, I was told that they are all based on props. BMW's is supposed to represent a spinning prop, which is why it's two colors - it's supposed to look a bit blurred. The other two are supposed to look like very stylized props, Mercedes' being very thin and elegent and Mitsubishi's being somewhat chunky. I haven't found anything that explains the meaning of "Mitsubishi", as noted by Carl, so I will play devils advocate on this one! Let's just say that to the best of my knowledge all three insignias were inspired by propellers.
RG
Does that mean I win?
What's the prize?
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by racing girl:
As for the insignias, I was told that they are all based on props. ....
There's also one other European motor manufacturer who built jet planes before they built cars, they might even still build the planes, I don't know. Who are they???<hr></blockquote>
Saab.
Re the Mercedes star - My impression is that the points signify earth, sky, and water - as in roads, air (engines), and boats (I guess).
As for the insignias, I was told that they are all based on props. ....
There's also one other European motor manufacturer who built jet planes before they built cars, they might even still build the planes, I don't know. Who are they???<hr></blockquote>
Saab.
Re the Mercedes star - My impression is that the points signify earth, sky, and water - as in roads, air (engines), and boats (I guess).
Saab has an aircraft heritage. As for Mercedes and Mitsubishi, their insignia have nothing to do with aircraft whatsoever, as a quick google search shows...
The Mercedes story:
Daimler had died in 1900 at the age of only 66 but his two sons, now managers at their father's company, remembered that he had once sent a post card to his wife on which a star marked the house where he was living in Deutz. He had commented that eventually this star would rise and shine out over his work.
The Chairman of Daimler took the idea up in June 1909 applied to use both a three-pointed star and a four-pointed star as trademarks.
Both applications were granted, but only the three-pointed star was actually used. It was placed at the front of the car as a radiator emblem. Over the years the star, which was also intended to symbolize the modernization of transport on land, water and in the air, acquired various additions and refinements.
In 1916, it was placed inside a circle which featured four small stars at the top and either the word Mercedes or the names of the Daimler plants in Untertuerkheim and Berlin-Marienfelde underneath.
In 1921 an application was made to have the three-pointed star in the ring patented as a radiator emblem and two years later this request was granted.
The Mitsubishi story...
Yataro Iwasaki, founder of the first Mitsubishi company, created the famous three-diamond mark by combining two images. He blended the three-stacked diamonds of his own family crest with the triple oak leaf crest of the Tosa clan, his first employer. This emblem is the source of the name Mitsubishi, which means "three diamonds."
The Mercedes story:
Daimler had died in 1900 at the age of only 66 but his two sons, now managers at their father's company, remembered that he had once sent a post card to his wife on which a star marked the house where he was living in Deutz. He had commented that eventually this star would rise and shine out over his work.
The Chairman of Daimler took the idea up in June 1909 applied to use both a three-pointed star and a four-pointed star as trademarks.
Both applications were granted, but only the three-pointed star was actually used. It was placed at the front of the car as a radiator emblem. Over the years the star, which was also intended to symbolize the modernization of transport on land, water and in the air, acquired various additions and refinements.
In 1916, it was placed inside a circle which featured four small stars at the top and either the word Mercedes or the names of the Daimler plants in Untertuerkheim and Berlin-Marienfelde underneath.
In 1921 an application was made to have the three-pointed star in the ring patented as a radiator emblem and two years later this request was granted.
The Mitsubishi story...
Yataro Iwasaki, founder of the first Mitsubishi company, created the famous three-diamond mark by combining two images. He blended the three-stacked diamonds of his own family crest with the triple oak leaf crest of the Tosa clan, his first employer. This emblem is the source of the name Mitsubishi, which means "three diamonds."
Bret
Yoda
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by William:
The Zero had way better handling than the American opposition, especially early on. This was due in large part to the plane's light weight. The F4F and P-40 simply couldn't stay with a Zero in a turning fight.
<<SNIP>>
-William<hr></blockquote>
Good stuff William,
But while the Wildcat would have never been my first choice, with some simple changes in tactics by US flyers the F4F proved to be quite successful against the Japanese Zero. By the time the Marines landed on Guadalcanal, there where two basic rules or tactics for dealing with the more maneuverable Zero. The first was to climb high & wait (coast watchers served as kind of an early warning system) and then dive on them from above. The second tactic use was to avoid a turning fight and “stick with your wingman” at all costs. I know it sounds simplistic but it worked. After that there was a dramatic change in the number of losses to American fighters vs. the Zero.
Interesting fact is that while the Cactus Air force (FYI “cactus” was the code name for the Island) was very successful at stopping daylight raids by Japanese bombers and surface ships on US forces Guadalcanal forcing them to exploit our next big weakness lack of night fighters.
However in the end the Japanese couldn’t shutdown the Cactus air force. Forcing Imperial forces to relent and give-up on a counter invasion of Guadalcanal.
The rest is history as they say. The F4F while in many ways not in the same class as the Zero proved that superior tactics prevailed. Thus allowing time for more advanced aircraft to enter the brawl in the Pacific.
The Zero had way better handling than the American opposition, especially early on. This was due in large part to the plane's light weight. The F4F and P-40 simply couldn't stay with a Zero in a turning fight.
<<SNIP>>
-William<hr></blockquote>
Good stuff William,
But while the Wildcat would have never been my first choice, with some simple changes in tactics by US flyers the F4F proved to be quite successful against the Japanese Zero. By the time the Marines landed on Guadalcanal, there where two basic rules or tactics for dealing with the more maneuverable Zero. The first was to climb high & wait (coast watchers served as kind of an early warning system) and then dive on them from above. The second tactic use was to avoid a turning fight and “stick with your wingman” at all costs. I know it sounds simplistic but it worked. After that there was a dramatic change in the number of losses to American fighters vs. the Zero.
Interesting fact is that while the Cactus Air force (FYI “cactus” was the code name for the Island) was very successful at stopping daylight raids by Japanese bombers and surface ships on US forces Guadalcanal forcing them to exploit our next big weakness lack of night fighters.
However in the end the Japanese couldn’t shutdown the Cactus air force. Forcing Imperial forces to relent and give-up on a counter invasion of Guadalcanal.
The rest is history as they say. The F4F while in many ways not in the same class as the Zero proved that superior tactics prevailed. Thus allowing time for more advanced aircraft to enter the brawl in the Pacific.
PC
Obi Wan
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by racing girl:
... they might even still build the planes, I don't know. ...<hr></blockquote>
One could make the argument that they don't make cars anymore. Since GM took over Saab they've been butchering it into another generic division. Meanwhile the original Saab continues to focus on aircraft, defense and technology.
PC.
[ 01-26-2004: Message edited by: PC ]</p>
... they might even still build the planes, I don't know. ...<hr></blockquote>
One could make the argument that they don't make cars anymore. Since GM took over Saab they've been butchering it into another generic division. Meanwhile the original Saab continues to focus on aircraft, defense and technology.
PC.
[ 01-26-2004: Message edited by: PC ]</p>
OP
racing girl
Jedi Knight
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Mickey - I don't recall offering a prize!
You'll have to settle for this...
Baxter - Big caveat in there "to the best of my knowledge", but thanks for putting me straight. This little bit of "trivia" came from a British car mag printed in 1988. A friend here at work bought it off ebay because it had an article about the Cheetah. Wonder if they ever printed a retraction!
Lawguy - Loved your answer, but what the heck are you trying to do? Drum up some business?
PC - Yup, Saab's are not what they once were, still not quite as generic as a GM product yet.
RG
Baxter - Big caveat in there "to the best of my knowledge", but thanks for putting me straight. This little bit of "trivia" came from a British car mag printed in 1988. A friend here at work bought it off ebay because it had an article about the Cheetah. Wonder if they ever printed a retraction!
Lawguy - Loved your answer, but what the heck are you trying to do? Drum up some business?
PC - Yup, Saab's are not what they once were, still not quite as generic as a GM product yet.
RG
RG-Ummm....didn't Bristol build jets as well? And I'm quite certain they still build cars.
Bret-my poor fingers were getting tired, so I didn't bother to go into the gory details of the Thatch Weave cover your wingman tactic. Plus. all I really know about aeroplanes I learnt from playing Fighter Ace 3.6!
-William
Bret-my poor fingers were getting tired, so I didn't bother to go into the gory details of the Thatch Weave cover your wingman tactic. Plus. all I really know about aeroplanes I learnt from playing Fighter Ace 3.6!
-William
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