TR2/3/3A Pondering a TR3 smallmouth..

I might be looking at a 56 TR3 smallmouth this coming week that is described as 99% complete but 80% disassembled.

Obvious, and not so obvious rust I think I can spot - but are there some key parts that I need to make sure are intact in order to save major headaches? Fenders maybe? What about windscreen? Etc.

Thanks,
Randy

Since it's apart, try to measure the frame to see if that is square. Take a parts book and put yourself an inventory list together so you can check off all you are getting and then know what is missing. Beyond that, I'll yeild to others on the forum.

Biggest issue I see is whether all the parts are bagged and lableled. There's no way of knowing if all the parts are there. Some critical parts are the cylinder head, crank, fenders and windshield front apron. Hopefully the engine will still be assembled.

I once sold a TR3 that was apart and had a real problem selling it. That was 21 years ago though.

Bieng the owner of a 56 Smallmouth possibly I can be of some help.
The front apron, there is a chrome grill surround {not the grill it`s self} A chrome strip on the leading edge of the mouth, this assembly is IMPOSSIBLE to obtain. It consists of an upper and lower chrome moulding and two chrome joint covers and the mounting hardware. ALL are N./A.
Things to look for:
The headlight buckets are the three adjuster type {Not the later style two adjuster.}

The windscreen wiper motor is somewhat different in the way the park assembly is configured {although the later style wiper motor will fit and work.}

If the car has an adjustable steering wheel, the circlip that holds the steering wheel on is a N./A. item.

The brake/license plate light, this part is available as a reproduction.

The 56 is a drum brake car and the brake shoes and drums are big $

If the car needs a wireing harness be sure to get the correct one according to the TS # the later style harnesses won`t work!

The park light assemblys {front apron} are somewhat different {flat lenses rather than coned} These are available as aftermarket.} The bulb holders are somewhat different than the later coned style.

Rear differential, this assembly is somewhat different than the later style differential although the later style will fit and work.

Be sure the stanchions and stanchion guides are present as well as the windscreen frame. {I see these from time to time on ebay} {Not Cheap}

The dual mastercylinder is BIG $ for a repro. If there is one present it can be resleeved for just over $200.00

Of course you`ll want to be sure the sheetmetal is in reasonable condition

The gas tank and mounting straps {2EA.} are different than a later model 3a Be sure they are present and accounted for.

The heater defrost ductwork {the metal parts} are N./A.
consists of a 90 degree angle and a Y at the bottom on the heater and the defrost distributors {attached to the bulkhead} {I have seen heater assemblys and heater parts on ebay from time to time}

The side curtains are the wedge type {originals had a one piece plexiglass} not the two piece sliding type.

The 56 has NO exterior door or trunk handles.

The interior door panels are somewhat different, rectangular opening rather than kidney shaped door pockets and a slot for the door opening mechanism. {Avialable as aftermarket}

A 56 has only three lights on the back {two tail/turn and one brake/license plate light}

The rest of a 56 is basically the same as any other sidescreen Tr.

Feel free to message me if you have further questions.

IF you decide NOT to purchase it, I might be interested. Let me know
Thanks

Take lots of photos and post them,along with the asking price. Also have him give you a full explanation of what is or is not there and correct,along with any info of work done. You should get some good answers here.

All good advice but not all of the 56's are drum brake cars with the single/dual master cylinder.
My later 56 has discs/drums and the later separate clutch/brake master cylinders.
The diff/wheel shafts/hubs are of the later stronger design also.
The discs are the early 11" models and the drums the early 10" and the 10" drums are expensive to replace.
Since the 56 was a transition vehicle there are some variances in 'parts'.
What is the build number so we can date it?

Thanks for the excellent comments. I talked with the owner today, he has a potential buyer coming out tonight but will let me know if it is still available tomorrow.

From his description I'm not sure I will stay enthused - I was leary when I heard that he didn't have drums on the front, also the front apron was replaced with a 3a front (he has the correct small mouth spare), but as I don't know the commission number it may still be an okay car - albeit a definite project.

I was hoping for a rust free relic but it sounds like there is a spot or two on the body - that could be a definite deal killer.

Randy

Randy:
It appears I was wrong about the disk brakes, according to this article disk brakes could have been a factory option as early as 1955

https://www.classicargarage.com/english/garages/history/triumph-histo.htm

The wider grill came out in the 1957 production year according to the article.
The Ts # can pretty much tell what year and even if it was an early, mid or late year production.
A heritage cirtificate can pinpoint it exactly.
depending on where the rust is, if it is minimal it can be an easy fix. But it IS a judgement call at best.
Fenders {or as the britts call them "Wings"}are a MAJIOR expense if they can not be repaired.
Dont be too willing to throw in the towel just yet, You could end up with a very good deal, even if you decide to resell or GOD FORBID part the car out.

AweMan said:

Randy:
It appears I was wrong about the disk brakes, according to this article disk brakes could have been a factory option as early as 1955

https://www.classicargarage.com/english/garages/history/triumph-histo.htm

The wider grill came out in the 1957 production year according to the article....

Click to expand...

Arguably a much better list of change points (although not absolutely complete) can be found on the VTR web site. I'm not aware of the disc brakes ever actually being a "factory option" on the TR3, but I suspect that a fair number of owners may have upgraded over the years (as they still seem to do nowadays). I have the remains of a small-mouth TR3 (commission number well before the change point) that a previous owner had added disc brakes to, in a most interesting fashion, involving retention of the old Lockheed master cylinder and some creative soldering together of hard brake lines to deal with the different types of fittings on each end with Lockheed v. Girling systems!

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif The confusion arises because Triumph did not change the model name/number when the disc brakes were introduced. So, it's a true statement that the TR3 was introduced in 1955, but the front disc brakes didn't come until later (September 1956 according to Bill Piggott). And the changes made were extensive enough that I seriously doubt they were ever an option; although ISTR there were some works race cars that had discs before the official introduction.

In fact, they didn't even officially change the model name when the wider grill was introduced. The TR3A designation was used by some dealers then and most enthusiasts now, but was never a part of official factory documentation.

TR3driver said:

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif ... the changes made were extensive enough that I seriously doubt they were ever an option; although ISTR there were some works race cars that had discs before the official introduction.

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True. As I recall, the Le Mans Triumph team cars in the mid-1950s had several different disc brake setups (Lockheed, Girling and/or Dunlop).

TR3driver said:

In fact, they didn't even officially change the model name when the wider grill was introduced. The TR3A designation was used by some dealers then and most enthusiasts now, but was never a part of official factory documentation.

Click to expand...

Never say "never"! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Standard-Triumph finally did get around to naming the Spare Parts Catalogue for "TR2/3/3A" models, but I think that's about as far as they went "officially"!

Andrew Mace said:

Never say "never"! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Standard-Triumph finally did get around to naming the Spare Parts Catalogue for "TR2/3/3A" models, but I think that's about as far as they went "officially"!

Click to expand...

Are you sure that was added by ST, and not by one of the many reprinters ? I have one of those too, but it's in a binder that says "Vintage Triumph Register" on the cover. It is supposed to be a 4th edition of P/N 501653 ... but I have another reprint of the 4th edition of P/N 501653 done by Brooklands, and it makes no mention of the TR3A.

TR3driver said:

Andrew Mace said:

Never say "never"! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Standard-Triumph finally did get around to naming the Spare Parts Catalogue for "TR2/3/3A" models, but I think that's about as far as they went "officially"!

Click to expand...

Are you sure that was added by ST, and not by one of the many reprinters ?

Click to expand...

I have two such catalogues; both are "period" pieces and not reprints. One is the familiar light grey ring binder, which I know has "...3A" on the cover. The other is the somewhat less familiar but still original spiral-bound version; I'll have to look tonight when I get home, but I think it also says "...3A" on its cover!

Regardless, it's unfortunate (but not unprecedented) that S-T didn't update illustrations when they updated these catalogues back then. I assume that would have been a major expense, but it can be tricky at least for novices trying to figure out all the related bits for, say, the wide-mouth apron and grille when the only illustration shows the original TR2 apron! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

AweMan, the bits aren't impossible to find,they are just impossible to find at what most people are willing to pay.Its a case of short arms and deep pockets.

I have quite a few "impossible" TR/MGA bits,but then...I'm tight fisted.

BOXoROCKS said:

AweMan, the bits aren't impossible to find,they are just impossible to find at what most people are willing to pay.Its a case of short arms and deep pockets.

I have quite a few "impossible" TR/MGA bits,but then...I'm tight fisted.

Click to expand...

Yep I agree!
I have ordered a few parts off of Ebay, all in all a pretty sad affair to say the least. A lot of times you can`t really tell the condition of Ebay parts by just looking at the pics and unless the seller is COMPLETELY HONEST sometimes thier discriptions are lets just say slightly over stated. As you might guess I havn`t been COMPLETELY satisfied with Ebay parts. As for N/A parts here is a for instance. I`v been looking for the front apron chrome moulding Joint covers for My 56 Tr, going on four years now, NO CIGAR! I have, from time to time seen the upper and lower mouldings {I might add in pretty sad shape} going on Ebay for BIG $ but NO joint covers EVER! Or mounting hardware for that matter, {I made my own}. I would be willing to pay a REASONABLE price for these covers, but at the same time I don`t want to get raped either!
Excuse me for bieng a bit off topic here.
Kerry

As a '57 smallmouth owner, I say go for it.

Yes, parts off Ebay are not pristine. That goes with the territory. But never forget the people on this forum. I have recieved a few parts for nothing or next to nothing just because other people in this group are interested in keeping these cars on the road.

The small mouth is just different enough to put it aside form all the other TR3's that people see. Once they see yours, they will remember it. You can see a dozen TR3a or b and not remember any single one. Yours, they will remember.

Mine also had a wide mouth when i got it. Check the frame. If they had to change the nose apron, there is probably frame damage. I was able to get mine straightened for under a grand. She drives straight without hands on the wheel, where ther was a hard pull to the left.

Don't stop at the frame. My left vertical link was bent, as was my lower arm.

I'd say go for it.

I love the looks of the smallmouth, TR3 that is, but the bass to.

I also like posting this pix of mine,....I know ya seen it,...I dont care...I like seeing it.....ON THE BIG SCREEN....in techni-color.

Its been sittin like this since the OJ trial.

That car is sweet - but I'm done pondering for now and going to let the TR3 project drive on by. The owner has an offer on it as of last night, and would entertain other offers but in its torn apart condition I think I'll stick with my TR4s for now. Unless, BOXoROCKS, you want to trade!

Randy

I know this is an old thread, but checking to see if AweMan ever found the grill trim pieces or not.

Russ will be needing some on his 57, I had to make mine for the 56 ( actually Dad made them) Think we used either a TR4a chrome strip that was bad or MGB. One of them was pretty close to original size. You have to look close to tell their not correct.

Marv