Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32

Thread: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

A discussion forum dedicated to TVRs

  1. #1
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    After being told by several "experts" that Ford never mated the T5 trans to the V6 Cologne engine, I found this to be incorrect.

    It turns out that all 2005 to present Mustangs have a base engine that's the 4.0L SOHC V6 and it's a Cologne engine!! It's a piece of crap engine (with the same small oil pump as our 2.8L), but the manual transmission is the Tremec T5!!!! There's also a 5 speed automatic available (there’s one in my town available with only 330 miles for $750).

    I just checked the bellhousing bolt pattern this morning at my local dismantlers hub and it is verified - the SOHC in the Mustang is a match to the plentiful 4.0L OHV engines in most Rangers (and several other vehicles) – as well as our stock 2.8L.

    My transmission with bellhousing cost $750 and had only 19K miles on it. Full speed ahead with the 4.0 swap and now it will have a bulletproof 5 speed!
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Confirmed - the new Tremek 5 speed manual offered in the base 2005 to present Mustangs with the V6 and manual trans does bolt right up to our Cologne engines - 2.8L or up to the 4.0.

    I'll not bore you with further details unless there's interest...
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    35
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    I'd be interested in further details of the swap. A 5 speed would make highway cruising much less revving. Grady

  4. #4
    Jedi Trainee
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    254
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Me too, I've been waiting for an update as I would like to do it to both of my 280is.
    Marshall

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    The good news: The T5 definitely bolts right up to the 2.8L (and the 4.0). The gearshift will mount as far back as we want - this gearbox was made for the shift lever to be a separate mechanism that mounts between the transmission and a body (or frame) mount. This cuts down on vibration from the running gear, yet has a very tight coupling to the shift mech. I could take a picture if you'd like - saves lots of words. The trans also has a large rotating weighted output flange - again less vibration and slack in the driveline. This means a custom driveline, but nothing out of the ordinary (like a TR6 slippy/splined driveline). Though the internals are T5, Ford says they have improved shifting and feel - a must for putting such an old design into the newest Mustang. The clutch will be simple, with no linkage required. The concentric slave is right on the output shaft so only a hydraulic line adaptor is required.

    The starter is in the same position but the stock 2.8L may not marry to the flywheel and bellhousing (which locates the starter); that's the one area you 2.8L guys will have to stay tuned for. I am OK because the 4.0L is identical to the Mustang's SOHC 4.0, but the 2.8L has the older flywheel bolt pattern (6 vs 8). I should know very soon when I get the flywheel.

    The bad news: This is the lower priority project, likely not to start till next winter - a year off. I have the tranny, Mustang starter and working on the Mustang flywheel - there aren't too many around yet and there's not much demand for after market ones yet. I would wedge (pun intended) this in front of the TR8 engine project, but I am also swapping the 2.8L for a 4.0L with the tranny update. That's the major cause for the delay. Sorry about that. I promise to document this. I can talk and assist someone thru it if you can't wait.
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    35
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Sorry if this has been discussed but which 4.0 are you swapping into what? I assume not the crappy base Mustang? And is it going into a Wedge? Grady

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Yes, swapping the 2.8L for the later OHV 4.0 into an '86 280i. The most difficult part is the induction. There are few/no after market alternatives for the Ford V6. Rather than using a stock ECU, I have purchased a megasquirt kit and have it approx. 50% complete. As soon as I get a flywheel, one of the two rebuildable engines will be strapped to a test stand and fire the system up. That will enable me to get a good first-fire on the rebuilt 4.0 that will fiinally go into the wedge.
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  8. #8
    Jedi Hopeful tr7andtvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    knoxville, tennessee
    Posts
    146
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Scotty, as per your advice I am about 3/4 finished with my 302 conversion. It truly does make more since then the Rover V8. This is a very easy conversion; I could do it a second time in 12-15 hrs. I am going to make up some instructions, a parts list and a diagram of the custom engine mounts. So if anyone wants to do the same they are not running blind. One of the best things about a 302 is the cheap and easy HP.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Glad that worked out for you Andy. I figured that would be even easier than the plans I have with the 4.0 V6. Perhaps I will go that route after I figure out the flywheel setup for the T5 Tremec and the 2.8L - there would be a couple of folks interested in my tranny at that point.

    Did you find a set of off the shelf block hugging headers that fit? That is the last hurtle for my setup. I will have quite a bit of time into the V6 air box and injection and then there's welding all that stainless for the exhaust... Hmmmm, as I said, maybe I should take my own advice and go V8.
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  10. #10
    Jedi Hopeful tr7andtvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    knoxville, tennessee
    Posts
    146
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Headers... I can go with a set of Shorty headers, reverse sides and go up and to the front or I can use a set of cast ones from a old 289. There is a third option that I was told about that is off a 93 mustang. There is no cutting on the car, there is only modification to the existing engine mounts. I am estimating the weight gain to be only 30lbs!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Cool. I forgot to ask about the transmission. What flavor? Shift linkage, driveline.... Guess I'd better wait for your instructions. Let me know if you want to collaborate or just a second set of eyes on the instructions. 8^)
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  12. #12
    Jedi Hopeful tr7andtvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    knoxville, tennessee
    Posts
    146
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    93" t-5, with no modifications.... Stock driveline no modifications. I will cut down the shifter 1 1/2 or 2". Yea, when I do the instructions I will let you help me with it, since it was your idea.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Wow, stock driveline. You are very lucky; that's great. The late model Mustang T5's have a flange rather than slip yoke... Too many internals to change the tail shaft arrangement.

    I can't claim originality for the swap, but our brainstorming together seems to have yielded a good match!

    I like that idea of swapping the headers around. That will mimic some of the later TVR's. Wish I were closer to help.

    Take lots of pictures for the instructions - worth a thousand words and all...
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  14. #14
    Senior Member duffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Worcestershire England
    Posts
    82
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Hi from England,
    I own a cousin to the TVR a Rochdale Olympic (see link below)
    https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcfo...716#Post327716


    If you would like to learn about T5 gearbox and V6 Cologne
    engines try the link below.
    https://fordpower.org.uk/forum/index.php?act=idx
    Log on and click Engine 24V (see how 24V DOHC heads are been fitted to 4.0L blocks)
    and click Transmision (for T5 setups)

    My 1963 Olympic runs a Ford 2.9L 24V V6 210bhp, 150+mph and 0 to 60 in 5secs.
    https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcfo...00/ppuser/6786

    On the Fordpower site you will find a TVR with this engine and twin turbos mind blowing.

    Kind regards
    Tony
    Old age and Treachery will overcome Youth and Skill
    1963 Rochdale Olympic PhaseIII - DUFFY
    www.rochdale-owners-club.co.uk

  15. #15
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Hey Tony,

    Thanks for the forum link. Good info. I have been following the 24v conversions and what a lot of work that is! Unfortunately the heads are not available over here.

    As for the T5 adaptors to our V6's, I found these as well after hours of searching. The cost, availability and quality are all risks. That is why I was so excited to find the Mustang T5 from Ford will bolt directly to the 4.0 V6. I picked up the tranny (with 19K miles) and bellhousing for less than Burton gets for just the bellhousing..

    Unfortunately my last discovery is that a custom flywheel will be required for anything but the late model 4.0L engines. Sorry, but the newer 8 bolt crank pattern is required for a bolt together solution. No one is making after market flywheels for the 4.0 Mustang (yet) or you might be able to talk someone into drilling the older 6 bolt pattern. Perhaps someone will pop up in the future, like SCAT. Or a custom alloy flywheel could be easily turned.
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  16. #16
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Oh my God! Has everyone gone daft!

    Possibly good news before I bore you with the recent issues; there is hope that the Ranger flywheel will allow mating the Mustang T5 Tremec transmission to the older Cologna 6 bolt crank flange. As it turns out, I was supplied with the wrong starter from the beginning.... Leading me to get an expensive late model flywheel rather than a cheap one from a Ranger pickup.

    1. Put out a web search for a 2006-2008 Mustang SOHC flywheel. Ordered one from "Quality Auto Parts" (dont ever do business with them!). Flywheel description was correct on the invoice.
    2. Received flywheel (actually shipped from a sub-vendor, not "Quality" Auto)- flexplate for auto, not manual. Wrong engine/bolt pattern.
    3. Called crap auto parts - took an hour to get through. I must return to MI (I am in WA state) at my expense before they send a replacement. And I would have to do the same if they screw it up again... Time for a refund. Finally received refund after filing claim with PayPal and waiting 2 weeks.
    4. Ordered a new flywheel from Ford - at $30 less than the used one!! There are some great ford wholesale outfits on the web.
    5. Flywheel overdue, called supplier. They incorrectly addressed the package to the wrong state.. Eventually got flywheel and it is perfect.
    6. Bolt everything together and the starter isn't correct (got from the same place as the 5 speed MANUAL trans). Called the great guy at Ford for the correct part numbers. The starter was for an automatic! New starter ordered. Supplier lost the starter in transit. Finally arrived - also wrong, it was for a Ranger not a Mustang.
    7. Will either order a new one from Ford or wait for the supplier to find one (none available in his yard)- and try to get a refund from these guys...

    Crap!

    Thanks for listening, I feel a little better now. Hope everyone has fun in their garage today - one more hour for free!!
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    35
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    I'm glad it moving forward although I'm now completely confused as to what does and doesn't work together. Bless you for sorting out. Grady

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    35
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    Hi Scotty - Any update on this topic? And how about some pictures. Thanks Grady

  19. #19
    Jedi Hopeful tr7andtvr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    knoxville, tennessee
    Posts
    146
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    A standard ford t5 from 93-94 what slave cylinder will work?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Sparkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    WA, USA
    Posts
    77
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: New 5 speed conversion for 280i guys

    My conversion is a Tremec 5 speed from a late model mustang. The SOHC V6 is a Cologne engine that has the same bolt pattern as the 2.8L (and the 4.0L I am putting in mine). I am using the slave that came with the tranny - an annular slave. There's no provision in the bell housing for anything else and why not use the superior design...
    Scotty

    <span style="color: red"> Keep the shiny side up </span>

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •