I'm considering an Elan S4

Greetings Lotus people. I'm contemplating the acquisition of an Elan roadster, and would love some general advice. I tend to drive the LBCs that I own, and from what I gather, not only are Elans quite rare compared by my Healey and Triumph, there doesn't seem to be any major source for parts.

Sooo, here's my question. Elan prices seem really great, and is there anything I should know before taking the plunge? Will I be getting into trouble thinking I can drive it once a week on nice days? Any other thoughts or advice on the most user-friendly Elan models would also be appreciated.

Thanks so much! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Well, I'm likely not the most *objective* Lotus owner to ask, but: I drove my S-3 as a daily driver for almost two decades. I plan on doing it again as soon as I get maneuvering room to haul the body off the frame and fix the self-induced tear in it.

Parts are available from a number of sources. Sometimes not so cheap, but available nonetheless. Dave Bean Engineering has been my mainstay for twenty years. RD Enterprises has a good inventory and are good folk as well. There are others, too. Do NOT let a fear of "parts availability" dissuade you from the ownership of an Elan. You already HAVE the only acceptable progeny to one, AFAIC! Go get Wellie's Gran'!!!

I'm no Lotus expert, but I've been working on my S2 roadster for over two years now. Similar to you, I've grown up with Healey's and Jags and have a MG, so the Lotus world is quite different from what we're used to.

I've used the above parts suppliers many times, but ended up getting all of my engine parts from JAE (www.jaeparts.com). They are super knowledgeable, and it really came down to price and the fact that their suggestions wrt to increasing performance made the most sense to me. (e.g. everyone else was so quick to suggest decking the head to increase compression, but JAE talked me out of it and I ended up with new drop forged pistons for a fraction of the price they would be elsewhere)

Ebay is also very helpful. Be prepared to pay a premium for Lotus specific parts. Do you homework before you buy though, as you'll find a range of prices and many parts were shared with more common cars that can be purchased from Moss etc.

As far as which model to buy, everyone has their preferences. I searched for an S2 because it has Webers, toggle switch dash, smaller more delicate tail lights and no side marker lights. It is quite easy to incorporate the "big valve" and higher performance cams (I went one stage past the Sprint specs) into any Lotus engine.

Hope to be a Lotus expert one day...but that's my two cents for now

Decking a perfectly good Weber head would be a sin, IMO. Plenty of other ways to find more power in a T/C Lotus mill.

You get it yet, Bill?!?! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

What's the serial number on your car?
I had an "S1-1/2",serial number #3892.
After 15 years,decided that I'd never finish it.
The new owner had over $75K into it,last I heard.
Incredible cars to drive,but not "low maintence".

- Doug

Like TRs, there are many "trouble spots" that are specific to Elans and need to be inspected before purchase.

Water pumps are a big issue. Drive the car, then park it. Look for any water seeping/dripping off the pump. What happens is that the stock pumps are very prone to leaking when the cars are not used (bearings rust/corrode.) Unlike in most cars, changing a stock water pump is an engine-out procedure on an Elan.

The other common issue with Elans are drooping headlights. Vacuum is actually stored in the very front frame crossmember (very cool.) If the car has been bonked, or if the moisture in the vacuum is allowed to rust the frame member, then the lights won't stay up. Obviously, you don't want to "fix" the problem only by adding a vacuum tank somewhere (which is what one "restored" car I saw did.) In this case, the guy still had a badly rusted front frame-member!!!

You can drive Elans frequently. They are good cars...actually have a lot of leg room (head room with the top up isn't so great.) You also need strong toes, since it's hard to drive with your whole feet, due to the narrow pedals sitting so close together.

The most pressing issue of the Elan is how small it is, making it very hard to see by SUVs and minivans. If you drive on freeways, cars will merge directly into your lane with you right there. Keep in mind that the Elan is significantly smaller than a Miata. (Ten inches shorter, if memory serves.)

I'll differ a bit about water pump replacement. It ~can~ be done with the engine in-situ, and I've even done Europa T/C pumps this way. It's best done by head removal, tho there have been times where I've loosened the pan only (NOT in a Europa!). The pumps usually go for about 40K miles, after that you're stretching it.

The front cross-member is the vacuum tank, and a more common cause of drooping headlamps can be the check-valve in the circuit. Now that these cars have so much time under them it's best to check the tank to see if it "holds" well, but the more common culprit will be the check valve.

Another concern is the stub axles coming out of the diff. Problem is: they need to be visually inspected for "twist" where the splines slide into the carrier... They're subject to some fairly extreme loads and can snap unexpectedly. Newer design, "beefier" short-shafts are available and recommended at first tear-down.

Frame issues: There are drain holes in the bottom of all the upright pillars on the frame and should be open to allow drainage. A mirror and a flashlight to peer down into the uprights will show if they've been neglected in past: you'll see a "high water mark" inside the tower.

Look for stress cracks at the lower diff steady rod mount points on the frame, torque will cause anything from hole elongation to outright cracking across the bottom plate of the frame. 18-gauge mild steel.

Rotoflex couplings crack with age. If cracking is evident, they need to be replaced. Allowing one to rupture will have disasterous consequences, from a bit of chewed up 'glas to total loss of the car.

Hub bearings: Coil spring compressors and press work... and creative use of fixtures.

The car is 12' long, exactly. An exhaust pipe puts it just past.

Want my 2 cents too? I also have changed the water pump chest with the engine in.. Not a big deal if you can get nice clean surfaces for good sealing. The replaceable pump housing from people like Dave Bean is a great idea, but I got one of the early ones, and it didn't all fit together..
Be carefull..

The cars love to be driven, and even though mine has gone through long periods of inacivity over the past 6 years, it still fires up and runs fine whenever I want to use it.. and that includes during the winter months here in Canada. I too like the S1-S2, mostly because they are simpler, especially the wiring and window mechanisms..

The thing I don't like about the early Elans is the limited amoung of space for tires.. There is not much rubber on the ground for all out performance. The up side of this is it reduces the stresses on the driveline, so bits stay together longer, and makes the car very easy to slide around a track ( I can seriously drift mine..)

I highly reccommend the switch to a tall block if you want more power.. The extra torque is significant, and right where you want it.. You may also consider using Delorto's instead of Webers, as they are just plain better..

I also don't reccommend the all out race type shocks, if you are thinking that way.. On roads like we have around here the ridges and pot holes can cause cracks in your fiberglass unless there is some actual shock absorbtion.

Otherwise I'm sure you'll love it. I haven't found another LBC that feels so much like a modern car to drive, and the power to weight make for a nice change from the usual fare.

I'm sorry -- I should have said "usually" an engine-out procedure for the water pump.

When we got the pump changed on my father's Series I, we went engine-out, since there were other things to inspect, anyway...and I'd guess that if you had to do it on a car you were buying, it's worth it to pull the whole sh'bang, since you're bound to find something else cobbled together.

That actually seems to be one of the largest problems with Elans (and other Lotuses.) The dealer service was absolutely terrible in the States when these were new, and very little expertise was available, so people did some really stupid do-it-yourself fixes (like the screw in the ring-gear we found on my father's car.)

By the way, TypeRboy -- you don't need to apologize for owning a Miata. Anyone who bad mouths them has never driven one anywhere near the limit.

So true. When I got my S3 it was only three years old, but had been bodged up in so many ways it was criminal, including having the battery connected backwards.

Tire choices are abysmal. We're traction limited... but it makes for exciting driving even at 40MPH. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

It's a car you need to drive. By that I mean ya gotta PAY ATTENTION the whole time. No cell phone use, no daydreaming. Ever. It'll go out from under you in an eyeblink, and they're a handful to gather back up again. GREAT fun.

Miata: No fun UNLESS you've got it at 9/10ths... no place to DO that these days, the limit is waay "up there."

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] It'll go out from under you in an eyeblink, and they're a handful to gather back up again. [/QUOTE]

I disagree. I find the car very progressive and communicative in how it lets you know it is about to break away. It is telepathic in the way it gathers itself back up too, it practically corrects itself. Perhaps you have too sticky a tire on yours?

And on the really tight and twisty roads I can keep up with the new Elises (that really shocks the owners), of course I am working a bit harder, but that is the fun in it.

I'm coming from the viewpoint of the 'new' Elan driver, Morgan. It takes a bit of "stick time" to grow into an Elan and find its elegance. YOU can feel it 'talk' to you, so can I. Been driving the same one since '70. I can nearly make it dance. And it's a GAS to demonstrate 40-year-old Lotus handling to "modern" vehicle drivers! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

That was as a cautionary statement for someone getting into the drivers' seat for the first time... IYSWIM.

DrEntropy said:

IYSWIM.

Click to expand...

????

I swim? I suppose that's when you lose it next to a river... or maybe not.... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

I'm going to agree with DrE. -- my father learned the hard way that you simply cannot do the types of accident avoidance moves in an Elan that you can in a modern car -- or a TR, MGB etc.. If you swerve to miss a car...say...entering your lane at 60mph, it's very likely the new Elan driver will spin it like Wheel of Fortune. That short wheelbase makes it very uncatchable unless you know exactly what you're doing.

Tires make a huge difference, but so does the weather.

I've known (people close to me) those who've thought themselves "Drivers" who've been terribly mistaken. One made errors when it came to an Elan: Killed his friend in one 'cause he was in over his head. Speeding. Overcorrected, spun it like a top, hit a ditch and went inverted. Dead friend (decapitated) and totalled a ~borrowed~ Elan... just before this "milk run" he was TOLD by the owner he'd goaded into allowing the trip: "Down and back... NO silliness. Remember! Doc says it happens in an eyeblink." He learned. Very hard lesson. Too late.

JamesWilson said:

DrEntropy said:

IYSWIM.

Click to expand...

????

I swim? I suppose that's when you lose it next to a river... or maybe not.... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Click to expand...

splish-splash! Actually: "If You See What I Mean."

Ah, yes. How ironic. I saw what you meant, even if I didn't IYSWIM.... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

My father has spun two Lotuses. In 1960 he spun an Eleven at Shelton Raceway into the infield, where it promptly caught fire. Father walked away. Fire was quickly put out.

In 2006, he spun the Elan S1 across four lanes of highway traffic after being cutoff. Walked away.

In both cases, the rear started to slip. In the Eleven he simply overcorrected (and it was a particularly hard-to-catch DeDion car.) In the Elan, it was wet and the tires were cold and hard, so it was inevitable that he'd overcorrect.

As Dr.E said -- they'll spin like a top.

I've ground-looped my share: Elans, Europas, +2... NOT on public thorofares, luckily. Race courses, auto-x. Used to do it at the finish line of an auto-x now and then... come across the finish line bas-ackwards in the S3... Crowd pleaser but a time scrubber.

I was a smart-arse in my youth /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Hmm, well every time my car has ever stepped out on me it practically corrected itself. I've never come close to spinning it. But then the roads I drive hard on are so tight and twisty that you are not going much more than 50/60mph. It did give me a real scare once when I hit a wet patch on an exit ramp and the car did a 4 wheel drift, the car caught itself before I even had a chance to realize what happened.

Drive any true hard core sports car like an arse and it is going to bite you (the Elise/Exige is notorious for spinning if you lift) but new cars these days are designed to understeer first to give you a wake up call. The Elan...not so much, but it is arguably the same with any classic car and not an Elan specific thing (other than the Elan may be going faster than most LBC's )