morgan +8

looking for a good soource for information for the morgan plus 8 cars imported to the states? looking for the years they where imported, with what gearbox they came with, when did they widen the body? what year did they add air bags? and more? basically a detailed history of the car.
Drew

A good book is "original Morgan" by John Worrall. I've seen them on ebay, but it's been in and out of print. Also, it only covers up to the late '80's.

Morgans to 1997: A Collector's Guide by Roger Bell is more current, but is a better 2nd or 3rd book to have in my opinion.

MORGAN 1968 to 2001; a Brooklands portfoilio by RM Clarke is also available, but I don't have a copy and can't tell you much about it other than it's pricey.

Basically plus 8's have been imported since their introduction in 1968 (only a handful in '68). A man by the name of Bill Fink of Isis Imports worked through the safety standards and emissions hoopla of the late seventies and early 80's to keep them flowing. His daugther, Tcherek, is a member here I noticed.

Sometime in the late 70's Bill started converting these cars to run on propane in order to get them past the smog nazis. That requirement ceased sometime in the mid-80's. Most of the cars were coverted back to gasoline power. Generally when converted to gasoline, an offenhauser intake and a Holley 4-bbl or weber/edelbrock 500 was used instead of the stock dual SU's.

Engines are as follows:

Rover 3500 (Rover adapted buick 215 aluminum block V8) until 6/1990. Lucas fuel injection began in 6/1984, but as always - there were exceptions before and after that date.

From 1968-73 the Moss 4-speed gearbox was used. Moss box cars are highly collectible, but the gearboxes are very expensive to rebuild. There were about 484 of these built. From 1973-1976 the rover 4-speed box was used. There are some 702 of these built. Hence after, rover 5-speeds were used, in a couple of different varieties.

The Rover 3.9L was used from 6/1990 - about 1998.

After that, the US got the 4.0L rover motor. Everyone else got the 4.6L. These cars were notably equipeed with the GEMS engine management system, which was programmed for a heavy 4WD Land Rover. As no modifications were implemented when installing it into a 1800# RWD sports car, tuning was poor, reliability was promlematic, and best of all the ssytem required specialised, very expensive equipment to diagnose it. Also, the factory was in financial trouble, and went through 3 different wiring harness manufacturers of varying competence. There is no wiring diagram for these cars, as there were too many viariations to account for. Of the last 10 cars that were delivered to Cantab Motors in 2003-2004, 10 had serious drivability issues. One wouldn't even recognize the computer at all.

After 2004, the factory focused on the Aero 8, abandoning the plus 8. As the Aero failed, the factory introduced the "roadster" with a v-6 engine. Morgan had enough air bags left on the shelves for 82 cars, so that's how many the US market got in 2005-2006. Now, all that is available is the Aero.

That said, Bill Fink is building +8's with Corvette motors. They are much faster than plywood was meant to travel. I don't know if he is just doing conversions, or building them in "kit" form from bodies supplied from the factory.

Air bags started in 1997. The doors were also lengthened that year.

The chassis was widened in 1976, and again in 2004. The body widths got progresively wider, 1976, 1979, 1983, 1996, and 2004. Again, variations from the factory are plentiful.

If I were shopping for the most reliable, best driver out there i would look for a 3.9L. The hotwire injection systems on these cars was fairly simple. Expect to pay $40-60k. If I were looking for a +8 with the original clasic "soul" of the morgan experience, I would go with a pre-76 moss box car. Prices are in the $30-50k range.

If you have any more questions, I can probably answer them. Tcherek might chime in, too if she has time.

Eric

thanks for the information i will look into getting the above books. when they widen the chassis did they change the suspension? do they all handle about the same? did the wider bodies have more interior room?
Drew

my pleasure. always happy to talk morgan.

suspension remains unchanged today, except for the aero 8.

oh - in the the rear, they did change from lever shocks to telescopics in 1991.

Rack and pinion steering bega as early as 10/83 (as an option, later became standard equipment)

Compared to an MGB or a Honda, yeah, the +8's all handle pretty much the same, which is to say, stiff. Suspension travel is about an inch, 2 at best. Some like to discuss camber in the front - there are camber plates that can be used to adjust this for racing - but with the sliding pillar suspension, camber changes (the wrong way) as the body rolls. with so little spring travel, it is a minor issue
for casual driving. Basically, there is a lot more suspension there than chassis. 8)

There is a ton of stuff available for suspension and engine mods. Some of it is cheap if you're a wrench, most of it is not.

The narrow-bodied cars turn-in a little quicker if you're into autocross driving. They are also lighter.

The biggest difference in comfort is the switch to the long-door design in 1997, but unfortunately this corresponded with the introduction of air bags.

I am 6'2, 280 lbs, and I fit into the early models OK. It's a little tough getting in and out, but once seated its pretty pleasant. Yes, the later models are a tad roomier, but I wouldn't make that my first priority for selecting a morgan.

I would add this, too. The +8 is generally a businessmans car, and the +4 and 4/4 models are generally the emchanics and engineers cars. I'm speaking within the Morgan culture, here. There are some very notable exceptions, of course.

The aluminum block 8 cylinders can be modified - but it is expensive. The fastest car I've driven -ever- was a +8 with about $80k of engine and computer work. The fastest car on the Morgan racing/autocross circuit is a guy by the name of John H. Shealey, III - in your neck of the woods, actually. (relative of yours?) It is a race-specific turbo 215, PROPANE fuelled.

The second-fastest Morgan on the circuit is a 1500cc 4/4 with about $10K of engine mods and some custom suspension tricks. There are some very close contenders with the TRiumph engine, and some who use lotus variants of the 1600 cross-flow. Obviously, a lot can be done with the kent engines. heck, Fiat twin-cams were stock for a while, and those are DIRT cheap. Don't tell anyone I suggested it though.

My point: if you want a +8, you want a +8. If you want the ultimate in Morgan power, cost be damned, you want a +8. But if you are the type who wants to get your hands dirty with less than infinite cash, you might consider a +4 or a 4/4.

By the way, if you do have infinite cash, my shop is at your disposal. <laugh>

My *personal* opinion is that the earlier +4's with the higher-profile body seem to have a bit more "british soul" than the low-body cars. Incidentally, I have seen a couple people who put the 215 in a +4.......

One other thing - when you talk about Morgans, originality doesn't count for much (within a certain limit). Mixing parts between morgans is always fair game without criticism from the club. Adding major parts from other british cars is generally accepted, but slightly frowned on. (i.e., an MGA engine in a 4/4) Inserting something like a chevy or ford v-8 would take Bill Fink's reputation to be accepted, although some others have done it. Smaller bits - bugeye bumperettes, MGA wind wings, weber carbs, carter fuel pumps - are all fair game as long as they are done well.

I don't know if that's too much information. Hope it helps.

Eric, wait 'til you see what ~I~ have! I gotta do some rummaging BUT: Photos of J. Sheally, back in the early '70's!! Pleased to learn he's still around!

Sweeet!!!!

He got a, er, candid shot of me at the morgan meet last summer, and it now graces the home page of https://www.morgandc.com/ Ugh. My 15 minutes of fame went for a "belly shot".

Love to have some 70's pics of him.... hehe. I've heard he had quite the hairdo. 8)

Re: morgan +8 *DELETED*

Post deleted by DrEntropy, pulled for © reasons. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thought you Morgan chaps would enjoy this old pic from the early 50s. That's Mom & Dad. I used to ride in the 3rd seat (over the chain drive). We had this car til I was about 6 yrs old!

trike

wow. great pic - thanks!

here's another. this one is an f-type "family", 100e engine (look ma, no water pump!) 4-seater. Fun to drive as long as you don't try to go fast.

Re: trike

I saw a few Morgan trikes back when I lived in Ontario for a few years, but have been dry on Morgan trike sightings since moving back to Alberta... They are definitely very neat vehicles...

Re: trike

That is a nice picture. Looks very similar to the old pic. I posted, though I am positive ours was a 3 seater. In looking at yours I was struck by how the spare was mounted on my Dad's car. Yours looks right and his wrong. I wonder why they would have mounted it high like that? What was the power in yours? If I recall correctly (and I probably do not!) ours had a BSA engine, does that sound right?

Re: trike

Bit newer:

Re: trike

[ QUOTE ]
That is a nice picture. Looks very similar to the old pic. I posted, though I am positive ours was a 3 seater. In looking at yours I was struck by how the spare was mounted on my Dad's car. Yours looks right and his wrong. I wonder why they would have mounted it high like that?

[/ QUOTE ]

There were more variations on trikes than... well, there were a lot.

Looking at your pic, it looks like the body is lower - rather than the tire mounted high. Could have been a variant from the factory, or a mod from an owner to reduce the center of gravity.

usually the 4-seaters had a tiny seat on either side of the rear wheel arch. I'm guessing someone (again, maybe the factory) modified the wheel arch to provide a single seat big enough for a 10-year old. <grin>

[ QUOTE ]
What was the power in yours? If I recall correctly (and I probably do not!) ours had a BSA engine, does that sound right?

[/ QUOTE ]

anything is possible, if not from the factory, certainly by the morgan enthusiasts of the time. BSA was not a popular engine in Morgans - Matchless and JAP engines were the most common twins, hung off the front of the car in the airstream. If it had a front grill and bonnet, it was probably a ford 100e engine - like the pic I posted. It had about 10 hp. It was water cooled, but used convection to circulate the water instead of a pump. Of course, there were all sorts of performance upgrades for the 100e engine, most notably the aquaplane head and carbs. heck, there were even superchargers available.....

Re: trike

That is gorgeous!! In hindsight Dads' (which was blue) must have had the Ford engine, as it certainly was water-cooled! This thread certainly does bring back some fond memories of that car...Thanx!!