Hard Shifting

Would anyone have an answer concerning hard shifting on my '73 TR6. 1st and 2nd gear seems to give in only after throwing the shifter back and forth between 4th and 3rd. The shifting problem is fine when your on the move. Once you stop, you have to struggle again to catch 1st. The clutch seems to be engaging and disengaging o.k. The throw out bearing is a bit noisy at times. Do you think that the gear box might be the problem.
To all my friends out there, thanks for your help.
Frank

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by F. BASIL:
Would anyone have an answer concerning hard shifting on my '73 TR6. 1st and 2nd gear seems to give in only after throwing the shifter back and forth between 4th and 3rd. ...<hr></blockquote>

The symptoms aren't completely clear to me but it sounds like you might have weak synchro's on first and maybe second. Often, it's easier to get into first (especially in a box with no synchro on first) if you push it towards second (not all the way in, just lean on it a little until you feel resistance) and then engage first. It sound like the throwout bearing may not be releasing fully.

Mine was doing a similar thing a few months back.
I drained the oil which was low and sort of thick and gloopy and put in fresh stuff. The problem was cured instantly. I find if my oil is just a little bit low the shifting gives me problems .. It tends to be a leaky tranny.

Might help ...

I was thinking of the oil also....assuming your clutch doesn't have too much free play.

To some degree, you may just have old-fashioned syncro wear, which can be a pretty big job to fix. But some of my friends have replaced their oil with Redline trans oil, claiming a big difference even in worn transmissions. The first and second gear syncros in my Spridget are a little balky, and I've been thinking of doing this myself. A lot easier than a total re-build....even if it doesn't make the shifting perfect, it may make the trans tolerable.

The Redline web site is:

https://www.redlineoil.com/whyredline.htm

It could also be weak pressure in the hydraulics. You may need a new master and/or slave cylinder.

Yes I'd be leaning towards clutch drag.. how easy is it to move around with the motor off? Does reverse give you a problem?

Of course the oil should be good for the trans to operate well of course.. A little moly slip can help..

Hello F. Basil,
A word of caution about different oils if yours is an Overdrive gearbox, only use the recommended oil and no additives.
Changing the oil is sensible; do the gears engage easily when the engine is off?, if so this proves that the linkage\actuating mechanism is OK.
If you can select first and second while moving but not at rest, there is probably some clutch drag.
Usually makes reverse noisy to select though.

Alec

Thanks to all of you who came to my rescue about the hard shifting issue. I will take your advice about changing the oil. My transmission is not the overdrive type, so if you guys think that Red Line oil is the one to use I will give it a try. Also to answer some of your concerns, my shifting is not a problem in any gear when the engine is off. As far as reverse is concerned I always go into second at a stop, then reverse which seems to eliminate any grinding. Within the last month I have replace the clutch master and slave cylinder and associated tubing.
Thanks again,
Frank

Hello Frank,

From what you say you cannot go cleanly into reverse from neutral. I run basically the same set up as yours (2.5 P.I. Triumph saloon, sedan in American, with the manual transmission) and clutches do give some problems.
I always make up an adjustable push rod for the clutch so as to be able to adjust the clearance and ensure I get full travel. Check the operating arm on the gearbox, to which the slave push rod attaches. There are three connection points and the selection of which alters the throw of the clutch. The fork that pushes onto the thrust bearing is secured to the cross shaft that the cltuch cylinder operates, by a tapered screwed pin. This pin is known to shear but often jams so the clutch works after a fashion. If the operating arm outside the gearbox seems to lean back, that is a sign of that problem.
I suggest looking closely at the slave cylinder and linkage.

Alec

PIMAN is right on target, the "noisy "throw out is also a symtom of the failed cross shaft bolt. Procrastination here will not be good in the long term at all. Pop out the tranny ,service it freshen up the seals, check the syncros. replace the throw-out bearing & broken bolt. (dollars against doughnuts on this one)
MD mad dog

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by piman:
Hello Frank,

From what you say you cannot go cleanly into reverse from neutral. I run basically the same set up as yours (2.5 P.I. Triumph saloon, sedan in American, with the manual transmission) and clutches do give some problems.
I always make up an adjustable push rod for the clutch so as to be able to adjust the clearance and ensure I get full travel. Check the operating arm on the gearbox, to which the slave push rod attaches. There are three connection points and the selection of which alters the throw of the clutch. The fork that pushes onto the thrust bearing is secured to the cross shaft that the cltuch cylinder operates, by a tapered screwed pin. This pin is known to shear but often jams so the clutch works after a fashion. If the operating arm outside the gearbox seems to lean back, that is a sign of that problem.
I suggest looking closely at the slave cylinder and linkage.

Alec

<hr></blockquote>

Well I tried the quote thing, but I'd better go back and read the book. What I was wondering was if the adjustable clutch pushrod would be a plan on any vehicle so equiped ie a TR-7? Also how is it made and installed? Thanks Dale

I just wanted to let everyone know that the hard shifting problems that I have been experiencing on my '73 TR6 are now solved. I replaced the clutch with one from the Triumph Factory. I used their "magic clutch" kit. Since my car is a daily driver I decided on the better clutch which they warranty for 18 months. I did notice that the center hub in the old clutch disc moved freely, not a good thing. The old throw out bearing was very noisy. The tappered pin on the clutch shaft was not broken. All new parts were installed, including up-graded bearing,fork, fork shaft, bushings and new tappered pin. After re-assembly the shifting falls into every gear just as it was meant too. Once again I want to thank everyone for your help.
Frank Basil

F. Basil--I noted you installed TRF's Magic Clutch kit. I suggest you check the tech bulletin on "sticky clutch" at the Buckeye Triumph's website to learn a bit more about experiences with that kit. I, for one, will be installing the German Gunst alternative at the next gearbox R&R.

Rick O.

Glad you got it resolved Frank! Probabaly not a bad idea to check your gearbox oil anyway... an ounce of prevention and all that...

Basil