Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!

GRRRRR! So, I go out to the B this morning to go to work, and go through the start up rituals: neutral, choke on, ignition power on for a few seconds, and start the engine. Things seem ok. While the engine is warming up, I push in the clutch and it felt ... weird. It was giving me feed back that wasn't *smooth*. I think, "huh, that's a little odd. Let me push it in a couple more times." I push it in a couple more times and then the clutch said, "pthpthpthpthpthpthpthpth! I ain't gonna do pooh for you anymore!", and the pedal no longer has any resistance at all. Sudden sinking feeling in my stomach. The clutch is making mild grinding/scraping sounds similar to the sound of finger nails being dragged over a formica counter top constantly. A quick check on my suspicion; I push the gear lever into 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th with ease. So I figure the clutch is stuck in the pedal's depressed position. I had checked the reservoir last night and it was good. So, I assumed it was still good and decided to look under the car. Low and behold mass amounts of fluid pouring from the boot of the slave cylinder and it's stuck in the extended position. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I tried tapping the push rod with a hammer to get the slave to return to its resting position, but no go. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

In the entire clutch system, the slave cylinder is the newest component (only 2 years old)! I can't be more irritated than I am right now. My quick thoughts on what could be happening here are: 1) Slave cylinder is cocked and won't return to it's resting position and the hydrolic seal might be extended past the bore allowing the fluid to leak past. 2) Clutch pressure plate has failed and isn't pushing the slave cylinder back in. 3) The master cylinder is jammed in the depressed position and not allowing the slave to return to its resting position, but the pedal moves freely so I'm less inclined to believe it's the Master at fault here.

Given that there's copious amounts of fluid rushing out of the slave, my thoughts are leaning more towards the slave cylinder has failed or the pressure plate has failed.

Thoughts on this, anyone?

check the hose to the slave cylinder if you didn't replace it. they go bad from the inside out

My guess is the slave also. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif Just had theat problem. Stepped on it and it did not feel right then nothing soft pedal.
The tell tale sign of the fluid trail after I pushed back into the garage was also a dead give away.

Rats. I'd be surprised if it were the P/plate, but stranger things, etc. You changed the hose when you did the slave, IIRC, yes? The piston is likely "cocked" and not allowing the fork to return: be careful as the thing is a loaded bear trap if this is the case! Maybe lever the arm just enough to unbolt the slave as a "step one." As ccogill suggests, the hose (if you didn't change it) can act as a one-way valve when it deteriorates.

yes, I should have mentioned that. I did put a new clutch flex line in when I put in the slave cylinder.

Well, this may be a blessing in disguise, I guess. Considering, I've noticed fluid drips on my left foot after driving, I might as well change the master while I'm in there changing the slave...

Yeah, I realize the potential for injury with the slave piston cocked like that. I can remember not being able to move the lever arm at all with my bare hands when i initially replaced the slave.

I reckon I'll start with replacing those two parts... If'n it ain't working right after that, I'll have to see about contracting someone for the clutch assy itself.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


what was the recommendation for the clutch fluid again? When I topped it off last, I put DOT 3 brake fluid in... that good; bad; sufficient?

Shouldn't be a prob, but I'm superstitous and use NOTHING but Castrol LMA.

ah... I just remember a minute detail about the part I installed when I bought the car. At the time I didn't think nothing of it, but now that it's failed in an unexpectedly short amount of time it's gnawing at my conscienceness. The slave cylinder I put on the car 2 years ago was one of them there "Replacement" units that cost half the price of the Lockheed unit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonono.gif I think I'm gonna bite the bullet this time and get the proper Lockheed parts.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

I had no idea there was such a thing. YIKES!

Woops

Well, looking through the parts lists at Moss and B-Hive, The master cylinder is available only as a Lockheed unit, but the slave is available as Lockheed or "replacement" on B-Hive, and Lockheed or "Classic Gold" on Moss. The non-Lockheed parts are half the price...

If you've room for storing some bits, I'd say get a rebuild kit for the master and clean it out well, hone it and stow it for "later". Oh, and LMA. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

well, parts are ordered. I went with B-Hive. It might take me a day or two longer to get the parts from Gordon, but total cost for the Lockheed parts + shipping is less than the Moss price for the same parts alone... not to mention the additional 8.5% tax I'd have to pay through Moss... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nonod.gif

Rob! You didn't check w/me..I'm lower than both of them!

d'oh! was operating in panic mode... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

i've got a list of other parts i plan on getting from ya though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

How in Sam Hill are you supposed to get that stinking Clutch Master Cylinder off of the pedal box>?!?!? Do I have to run out and pick up a 12 extension so I can get a ratchet onto the bloody bottom bolt from the foot well?!? I thought I was gonna be smart and attempt a vicegrip + 3/8 breaker bar through the footwell to the bottom bolt holding the cltuch master but I couldn't keep the stupid thing on the bolt!

GRRRR! I wanna see the contorionist that put these things together! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif After this afternoon, I'll change a clutch line ANY day with the starter still in place over changing the master cylinder!


Other update. Slave Cylinder is changed. The old slave was definitely jacked up. However, the master is so far gone that it doesn't start delivering pressure to the slave until half travel. It's thoroughly bled; no air in the system at all. So, I know for sure the master is hosed. Also, more indications to confirm my thoughts; there's plenty of seepage at the plunger seal. Aside from the drips I was getting on my left foot, I can see the area below the plunger seal has quite a bit of fluid on it.

I also need to add this to my update on the clutch. The little pressure that I did have was enough to move the slave, and therefore the clutch arm/lever, but it *felt* <u><font color="red">***NASTY***</font></u>. I mean REALLY nasty. It felt like my foot was dragging on a gravel road nasty. It was coupled with some funky DJ sounds from the clutch, which I will interpret to mean something ain't right. I've never worked on/replaced a clutch before. I suspect this means at the very least the throw-out bearing is shot too?

Either way, I'm 95% sure I wanna throw in the towel and contract someone else to fix the rest of the clutch system. If changing the master will only need a 12" extension, I'll prolly do that myself before calling for a tow truck.

Sooooooo.... Tips on Clutch Master Cylinder removal anyone? And any wild guesses on what else may be bad or very close to failure?

Any rubber lines you haven't yet replaced... and for the master cylinders, I pulled my whole pedal box... But I did both the clutch and brake masters.

rubber lines are good still. I'm wondering if the release bearing is bad.... then should I just get a replacement bearing or get the whole clutch kit?

Anyone know what labor cost might be on getting a clutch changed?

Are you sure the clutch rubber hose is still good? It may look good on the outside but be deteriorated on the inside. I had this problem with an old brake hose. It was dissentegrating from the inside out and the rubber bits were migrating into the brake calipers and making them stick.

If you need another set of hands let me know and I'll see if I can swing by for a while. Don't count on any clutch experience on my part though.

I'm pretty sure it's still good. It's only 2 years old. erm... hmmm... so was the old slave cylinder... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

anywho, the system bled out clear. I didn't see any signs of the line giving way under preasure (e.g. no bulges, soft spots, etc.). The line felt uniformly flexible while I was removing the slave cylinder. So, i assume this means the line is still good.

If there are no tiny black specs in the fluid then the hoses are most likely fine.