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Thread: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    I am looking for a spare set of front brake shoe frames for my 1958 Courier--also front wheel cylinder rebuild kits. The brakes are as originally furnished and were designated #219 in the standard brake shoe book but do not seem to be available from the usual sources. They are 9" diameter and 1.5" wide. Supposedly they were also used on Rileys, Hillmans, Sunbeams, etc. etc.

    Used shoes will be fine as I plan on having them redone with racing pads.

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Obi Wan WhatsThatNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Are you going back to the original drums rather than the 240Z?

    I get my rebuild kits from www.applehydraulics.com
    Of course your numbers will be different if your car isn't stock.

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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Dave--

    Though the backing plates have been drilled/vented, the drums have been replaced with Datsun Alfin's and the shoes have metallic pads the brake shoe frames and the cylinders are as far as I know original. The brakes are 9" x 1.5".

    Do you have a spec for the cylinder and kit? I'm now learning from some other VSCCA Courier drivers that the brakes were also used on Triumph Heralds and perhaps I need to go over to the Triumph forum to see if I can develop a source.

    Best--Michael

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Dave--

    I don't think I directly answered your question--No, I am not going back to the stock drums. The Alfins are the same size--just different material--as the original steel drums. The frames should theoretically be the same as stock.

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Moderator Andrew Mace's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    [ QUOTE ]
    The brakes are 9" x 1.5"....I'm now learning from some other VSCCA Courier drivers that the brakes were also used on Triumph Heralds and perhaps I need to go over to the Triumph forum to see if I can develop a source.

    [/ QUOTE ]In this case, the Triumph forum has come here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Herald front drums are 8 x 1.25" Girling 2 leading shoe, so they won't work. (Rears are 7 x 1.25" Girling leading/trailing shoe.) Maybe they're TR brakes; offhand I don't know how wide TR drums are, but they might be 1.5". Note that some TR front drums are 10".

    Hope this helps a bit.
    -- Andrew (Andy) Mace, VTR's Triumph 10/Herald/Sports 6 vehicle consultant and keeper of the North American Triumph Sports 6 and Herald Database

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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Andrew--

    Thanks for the info but in the meantime I got a call from Pete at Worldwide Auto Parts who ID'd the brakes as being from a TR2/TR10 and is sending me a used set of shoes that he had in stock.

    As always, thanks to the great folks on this list for the assistance. I usually habituate the Healey forum but I see that the same level of cameraderie and interest in others as prevails there is in force here as well!

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Moderator Andrew Mace's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    [ QUOTE ]
    ...I got a call from Pete at Worldwide Auto Parts who ID'd the brakes as being from a TR2/TR10 and is sending me a used set of shoes that he had in stock....

    [/ QUOTE ]Well, I'm not surprised either that Pete a: was able to ID these and b: come through with parts. TR2 makes sense. (Note that the "TR10" is incorrect; they would've used much smaller 7" brakes.) After my post, I did come across one Girling catalogue reference that gave a part number and a cross-reference to "Triumph"; unfortunately it did NOT give a model.
    -- Andrew (Andy) Mace, VTR's Triumph 10/Herald/Sports 6 vehicle consultant and keeper of the North American Triumph Sports 6 and Herald Database

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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    [ QUOTE ]
    Well, I'm not surprised either that Pete a: was able to ID these and b: come through with parts. TR2 makes sense. (Note that the "TR10" is incorrect; they would've used much smaller 7" brakes.) After my post, I did come across one Girling catalogue reference that gave a part number and a cross-reference to "Triumph"; unfortunately it did NOT give a model.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Andrew--

    Good parts guys such as Pete are simply wonderful. He also gave me the Moss number for the part (BTW it is the TR2 rear brake). I'm not sure that TR10/Standard 10 is incorrect--but it is much easier to go by TR2 parts as they're certainly more commonly known. BTW I had called Roadster Factory a few days back and they were totally useless--they would only attempt to locate a part if I had THEIR part number. Pete, OTOH, knew immediately what I was looking for off of the industry stanard #219.

    I'll soon be adressing the rear brakes and understand that they are off a Morris Minor. ID'ing, sourcing and chasing down obscure parts is undoubtedly part of owning an Orphan car.

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    [ QUOTE ]
    chasing down obscure parts is undoubtedly part of owning an Orphan car.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Here is the list I have constructed so far:

    Steering rack...............................Morris Minor
    Motor mounts..............................Nash Metropolitan
    Boot & Bonnet hinges (MkII)........MGY
    Tie Rod Ends..............................AH Sprite MkI
    Front A Arms..............................TR-10
    Rear End....................................Sprite 3.7
    Boot & Bonnet locks..................XK 120
    Seats (optional)...........................AH 100-4
    Front Upright...............................Herald
    Rear Axles..................................Morris Minor ???????
    Rear Drums/Shoes.......................Riley 1.5 ??????
    Front Drums/Shoes......................TR-2(Rear 9") ?????????
    Engine & Gearbox........................MGA
    Gages.......................................MGA
    Striker Plate & Door latch..............????????
    Fuel Tank.....................................????????? (But I have an original one not installed)
    Fuel tank sending unit...................MGA

    Home Made Elva Items:

    Wind screen
    Shift lever & Knob
    Complete Dash
    Steering Column
    Door Hinges
    Prop Shaft
    Radiator

    Let me know about the TR-2 shoes, I heard somewhere that they are 1/4" too wide, but I don't know if its true ( I have never tried them)

    I am still waiting for a reply from Butch Gilbert Re: the drums & shoes

    If you know about anything else.....Please feel free to add to/ amend my list.


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    Obi Wan WhatsThatNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Found something else:

    Suspension Bushings from Energy Suspension "polyurethane half hourglass shock eye 5/8" ID" # 9.8113G
    (They are also used on the panhard bar)


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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Thanks for the great info. I'll let you know about the brakes--I am using Alfin drums off of a 240Z and they actually have enough width to accomodate another 1/4 if need be.

    One point--the seats are definitely not out of a 100, though perhaps someone switched them and they work. The 100 seat frames are constructed from sheet whereas the seats in the Courier are made of tubes.

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Perhaps you can help me identify the seats in my Courier at Beaverun this year. I'm told they were an inexpensive alternative to the original ones & offered in kit cars.(they certainly resemble 100-4)

    BTW the valve covers are suspected to be HRG Derrington.
    (MGA covers are too tall and rub on the underside of the bonnet)


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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    [ QUOTE ]
    Perhaps you can help me identify the seats in my Courier at Beaverun this year.[ QUOTE ]

    -----------------------------
    Dave---

    I'm attaching the only photo of the interior that I have in my computer. I'll take some more tomorrow and send them to you directly offlist.

    The seats are original as far as I know and are very similar in appearance to MGA seats except that there is one additional pleat on both the seat cushion and the back. They are actually a bit assymetrical, the inside corner of each backrest being a bit higher than the outside, tracing the line of the scuttle.

    The seats in 100's are totally different--both in construction and appearance.

    Look forward to seeing you at PVGP and also hopefully Beaver Run. BTW I am on the entrants' list for the SVRA Sebring event next month. Pretty excited....
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Moderator Andrew Mace's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    (Note that the "TR10" is incorrect; they would've used much smaller 7" brakes.)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Andrew--

    Good parts guys such as Pete are simply wonderful. He also gave me the Moss number for the part (BTW it is the TR2 rear brake). I'm not sure that TR10/Standard 10 is incorrect--but it is much easier to go by TR2 parts as they're certainly more commonly known.

    [/ QUOTE ]I couldn't agree more about Pete. Again, though (see above), the Triumph/Standard 10s used smaller Girling brakes.

    The early TR2 (Lockheed) rear shoe reference is correct at 9" x 1.75"; later ones had bigger shoes...and then, ultimately, Girling brakes all around with the changeover to front disc brakes.

    It could be that Pete was thinking of the Standard Vanguard range, which I believe used Lockheed brakes throughout; some Vanguards did indeed use a 9" x 1.75" shoe.

    I have a pretty thorough Lockheed brake catalogue covering 1948-62 and might be able to help further. Let me know!
    -- Andrew (Andy) Mace, VTR's Triumph 10/Herald/Sports 6 vehicle consultant and keeper of the North American Triumph Sports 6 and Herald Database

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    Obi Wan WhatsThatNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    I don't have a very good picture of the seats either.....


    [image][/image]


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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Here's a shot of the interior.

    Yours are certainly Healey seats--there were slight variations between the 100 seats and later ones and I can't tell which ones you have from the photo.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    Here's another shot.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Obi Wan WhatsThatNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    I went to the VRG/VSCCA, dinner(bench race) last night at the creek house.
    It appears that there will be at least 6 Couriers at Beaverun this year.
    # 379 Nate Scigliano
    # 165 Bill Shaw
    # 331 Hervey Parke
    # 136 Hunter Lott
    # 223 Michael Oritt
    # 80 Dave Gills









  19. #19
    Yoda Michael Oritt's Avatar
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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits

    There are three signed up to participate at the SVRA events at Sebring in two weeks: Me and George Smith in a yellow car from Birmingham, both with 1600 cc engines and Bob Youngsdahl in a white car from Prior Lake MN w/an 1825 cc engine.

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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    Re: Elva front brake shoes and cylinder kits



    [/ QUOTE ]I couldn't agree more about Pete. Again, though (see above), the Triumph/Standard 10s used smaller Girling brakes. The early TR2 (Lockheed) rear shoe reference is correct at 9" x 1.75"; later ones had bigger shoes...and then, ultimately, Girling brakes all around with the changeover to front disc brakes.

    It could be that Pete was thinking of the Standard Vanguard range, which I believe used Lockheed brakes throughout; some Vanguards did indeed use a 9" x 1.75" shoe.

    I have a pretty thorough Lockheed brake catalogue covering 1948-62 and might be able to help further. Let me know!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, the brake shoes arrived today from WW and--despite promises that they would fit--as Andrew warned they are 1.75" wide. So it's back to the internet...

    Nevertheless the pattern of the holes, adjuster notches and radius appears identical with the ones on the Elva and if that is the case I am going to take them to a machine shop and hopefully have 1/8" removed on both sides of the shoe.

    My latest good information source identifies the brakes as being identical to those that were used on a Morris 1000. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I might obtain shoes for that vehicle? Thanks in advance for any leads.

    Best--Michael Oritt
    1954 Austin-Healey 100 Le Mans
    1958 Elva Courier (FOR SALE)
    1959 Elva MK IV Sports Racer
    1961 Ginetta G4

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