Spitfire No output from coil HELP!! 1972 Spitfire 1.3L Accusspark

F

FASTWAY

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #1

My accuspark coil reads fine on mulimeter power is getting to the coil okay.
there is no discharge from the HT lead.

No spark at the spark plugs, spark from the HT Lead when ignition is turned on (one spark), No spark during cranking, then sometimes an odd spark when ignition key released into run position.

The spitfire runs a ballast resistor based coil.
the accuspark coil is new but the old coil also accuspark reads fine on multimeter reading.

HT leads are all good.

Starting the car slowly got worse over a short period of time, included backfiring, until im a the point where the engine just turns over freely now.

Completely stumped any suggestions please ? :confusion::confusion:

 

poolboy

Yoda

Online

• Dec 18, 2020

• #2

What's in the distributor....contact points and a condenser or some brand of 'electronic' ignition ?

 

OP

F

FASTWAY

Freshman Member

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #3

its an aftermarket Accuspark electronic ign , fitted with a ballast , inside the distributor is just a rotor cap and trigger ring style set up , i dont seem to be getting coil output even though power is to the coil ok and it all reads well on a multimeter.

 

steveg

Yoda

Gold

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #4

I've fried at least one Pertronix unit. Their tech support told be this label blisters if it's failed. Assuming the Accuspark is similar.



Seems like the failure has to be either here or in the coil.

 

OP

F

FASTWAY

Freshman Member

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #5

Yeah thanks Steveg , it is similar , i assume that since theres no output from the coils HT lead, or at least just one spark then nothing during full cranking , the problem is the coil?...the coil however is new , the ohms on the old coil (same blue accuspark unit)read the same as the new unit and both are in spec...it seems like something has developed over a few short weeks and simply given up , just cant quite get to grips with which part....if the ignitor like yours fries , does this stop the output spark from the coil or just the ones from the Dizzy to the plugs?

 

poolboy

Yoda

Online

• Dec 18, 2020

• #6

If the Pertronix fails it deactivates the coil....There will be nothing wrong with the coil, it just will not get the signal from the Pertronix to discharge HIGH voltage back to the center of the distributor cap.

 

OP

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FASTWAY

Freshman Member

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #7

Mmm makes sense , i will have to give that a go with a new electronic kit , strangely my coil , on key run position , is kicking in at battery level (12amps or volts)...does this sound right ? , after taking its power from the ballast resistor i would have thought this would be less?....could be why the electronic box fried?....thanks Poolboy , youve at least given me some hope....whoooo

 

Madflyer

Jedi Knight

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #8

Question should the ballast be removed as you no longer use points check ins. again. It is said that not to leave key switch on in the run pos. when not running as all is hot so and can take out the Pertronix so yours may be the same.
TRY THIS with key in run position push start car if it starts and runs it is your key switch or jump out key switch power to coil any hot wire. I lost my Alt but only to find it was my key switch to Alt fields wire. Is it the org switch to the car 1972 Good luck
Madflyer

 

OP

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FASTWAY

Freshman Member

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #9

Thanks Madflyer , i will give that a go , i think the ballast has to be there to lower the voltage to the 1.5/6 ohm coil where the points based ones are 3 ohm?...on cranking theres an extra wire from the solonoid to the coil to give it more power only in a cranking situation which helps on cold starts(i think? ... thank you...you tube lol)....good info , thank you

 

Simmo

Jedi Hopeful

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• Dec 18, 2020

• #10

While we are on the subject. I seem to remember that a test light between the Acuspark +ve and the Coil -ve should show you the opening and closing of the Acuspark Visual points, just like if the distributor had real points.
Thus showing not only the correct timing position but also that the Acuspark is operational.
What do you folk think?

 

poolboy

Yoda

Online

• Dec 18, 2020

• #11

If it were points, a test light connected to the negative side of the battery (or a known good ground) and the other end clipped onto negative terminal of the coil or the low tension lead would make the test light glow when the points open...if the ignition key is in the ON position....BUT I'm not sure that would be a good thing to do with a Pertronix...having the key in the ON position when the engine isn't running, that is...That's ruined a few.

 

steveg

Yoda

Gold

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• Dec 19, 2020

• #12

poolboy said:

If it were points, a test light connected to the negative side of the battery (or a known good ground) and the other end clipped onto negative terminal of the coil or the low tension lead would make the test light glow when the points open...if the ignition key is in the ON position....BUT I'm not sure that would be a good thing to do with a Pertronix...having the key in the ON position when the engine isn't running, that is...That's ruined a few.

Click to expand...

There are very specific procedures for testing with a Pertronix. I fried one using old-style procedures checking for spark.

Check for troubleshooting procedures from Accuspark.

 

Sarastro

Obi Wan

Silver

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• Dec 19, 2020

• #13

So, to recap: you're getting at least one spark from the top of the coil when you turn on the ignition, but nothing when you crank it. That spark, plus your measurements, tells you that the coil is working and hooked up right. The only thing left is the Accuspark, which might well be fried. Those things don't have a reputation for reliability.

As a test, you might want to remove the Accuspark and install points temporarily, just to be confirm that the coil and such are OK. I'll be anything it runs fine with points in it.

 

P

pdplot

Yoda

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• Dec 19, 2020

• #14

What Steve said.

 

OP

F

FASTWAY

Freshman Member

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• Dec 20, 2020

• #15

Sarastro said:

So, to recap: you're getting at least one spark from the top of the coil when you turn on the ignition, but nothing when you crank it. That spark, plus your measurements, tells you that the coil is working and hooked up right. The only thing left is the Accuspark, which might well be fried. Those things don't have a reputation for reliability.

As a test, you might want to remove the Accuspark and install points temporarily, just to be confirm that the coil and such are OK. I'll be anything it runs fine with points in it.

Click to expand...

Yes , that sums it up nicely , i have a new accuspark on order and will let you know the results , im going to order some points as well but i think the accuspark will arrive first , interestingly i have quite often left the ign on while doing jobs , ive read this wont help the accuspark , the unit , if it is that , didnt just fail though , it became worse very quickly over a few weeks.....thanks guys

 

Simmo

Jedi Hopeful

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• Dec 20, 2020

• #16

Has anyone used VIPER coild? Dont wont to be a downer but I have had no luck with them at all. Can discuss the missing type symptons if anyone is interested.

 

Sarastro

Obi Wan

Silver

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• Dec 21, 2020

• #17

One big problem with Accuspark and Pertronics is its mounting inside the distributor. Electronics always generate heat, to some degree, and these ignitions are mounted on a plate that is only loosely connected to anything that could act as a heat sink. That's why they have a reputation for dying from overheating if left on too long.

It's something of an oddity, but lots of electronic things generate more heat when they are idling than when they are operating. I have never seen a circuit diagram for the Pertronix or Accuspark, but it seems certain that they are an example of that kind of behavior.

 

Gliderman8

Great Pumpkin

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• Dec 21, 2020

• #18

My TR6 has had a Pertronix installed for at least 7 years and I've never had a problem. I am aware of leaving the ignition on without the engine running. If I need the ignition on to work on my car I just remove the hot side of the coil until I'm done working on the car.

 

Madflyer

Jedi Knight

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• Dec 21, 2020

• #19

Glider has a good point to work with FYI as the battery is next to the motor on the TR6 if I do checks on my system with the key on I use the battery cutout switch on the battery as some parts are hot all the time.
Parts like the horn wires and Alt and fuse box are always hot. Madflyer

 

OP

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FASTWAY

Freshman Member

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• Dec 26, 2020

• #20

Ive fitted a new Accuspark and although shes not running it is at least trying to run which wasnt evident before.I have some points to try when i manage to get some feeler gauges , best guess would maybe be timing slipped? , plugs seem to be getting fuel ok....thank you all for your help , hope Christmas was ok for you all....
UPDATE
tested the plugs and the spark was really good , had a hissing sound coming out of the engine after trying to crank her over to start , plugs were wet but wouldnt quite fire.
Took air filters off , cranked her over and she started straight up.Turns out my Son had installed the air filters the wrong way round so that the flat side of the air filter was up against the carb in the air filter housing stopping air getting to the engine....doh.
Like to set the timing , any ideas on where to set her for a 1972 1.3L Spitfire mkv running on accuspark, doesnt seem clear on haynes manual , you tube goes anywhere from 8-10BTDC to 8ATDC?...Mmmm

 

Last edited: Dec 31, 2020