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Excessively Tight Steering

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Hello everyone, I have a 67 AH3000. The steering is so tight, after I go through a turn, the wheels will not return to center unless I turn the steering wheel. I have adjusted the peg on the steering box to the point of 2" of steering wheel play with no improvement. If I jack up the front end I can turn the steering wheel from lock to lock with little effort. All tie rod ends have been replaced. All seems well until there is weight on the wheels. I'm guessing a problem with the kingpins, any ideas? Thanks, Steve
 

Bob_Spidell

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We can only offer SWAGs until you tear into things a bit more, but I'll throw mine in:

- You can check the king pin arrangement by getting all the weight off the front wheels, grabbing the wheel/tire firmly at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions and try to move the wheels back-and-forth vertically and horizontally. There should be essentially no travel whatsoever, but a tiny bit is probably acceptable if you don't plan on driving the car a whole lot. If there's a lot of play--say, more than a 1/32" on the top and bottom of the wheel--your king pin bushes, and possibly the king pin itself should be renewed at your earliest convenience (check/repack wheel bearings, etc. while you're at it). If there's a lot of lateral play--shouldn't be since you replaced the tie rods--something might bind when steering.

- Unless you've changed to Torrington bearings, the entire weight of the front end weighs on some bronze thrust bushings and shims. With the wheel off, check vertical movement of the king pin in the top and bottom trunnions. Ordinarily, a little movement is not an issue as the car sits on these bearings, and on the road there would only be much (relative) movement if you pull negative Gs (i.e. bouncing or getting airborne). Again, if there's more than a smidge it may be time to check/renew the bushings (consider the Torrington upgrade).

- Other than the aforementioned, unless you spot something obvious, move all the front suspension around--'manhandle' it--and look for anything that feels tight or binds, or just "doesn't feel right." The problem you have is usually caused by the adjusting peg being too tight--I say from experience--but wth 2" of steering wheel play that shouldn't be the problem.

- Please report back what you find.

Edit (after second cup of coffee): ".. the entire weight of the front end weighs on some bronze thrust bushings and shims ..." is incorrect; the bulk of the weight of the front end sits on the coil springs, so a teeny bit of vertical travel of the king pins shouldn't be a problem (I'll be corrected if that isn't true ;)).
 
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Thanks Bob, I believe you're right about the entire weight of the front end being on the thrust washers between the trunnion and the axle assembly. I just looked at an exploded view in a Moss Motors catalogue. I don't see any other bearing in the vertical plane. Although I have had my car on the road for only about 2 years, that part of the resto took place about 15 years ago. Looks like a good place to start. Just found the Torrington bearing kit in Moss, will give them a try. Steve
 
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Bob_Spidell

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Note I edited my comment after the Forum sent the email; the entire weight is NOT on the trunnion/king pin, but on the springs and spring perch (in fact, you can remove the shock with the spring in place; unlike some, I think it's safe as long as it's done with care). The thrust washer bears the friction of steering, and the up-and-down motion of the king pin. I don't think the gap is terribly critical, but the less the better (otherwise, the washer takes a beating).

Edit: I don't mean to be insulting, but are both trunnions well-greased?
 

steveg

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Hello everyone, I have a 67 AH3000. The steering is so tight, after I go through a turn, the wheels will not return to center unless I turn the steering wheel. I have adjusted the peg on the steering box to the point of 2" of steering wheel play with no improvement. If I jack up the front end I can turn the steering wheel from lock to lock with little effort. All tie rod ends have been replaced. All seems well until there is weight on the wheels. I'm guessing a problem with the kingpins, any ideas? Thanks, Steve

Steve - Did you replace any parts within the box?

I ask because I had the same problem with a replacement peg from DWR. It was .0005" larger in diameter than the OEM and wouldn't quite seat all the way in the needle bearings and so was lifting the arm, causing rubbing on the box lid with the symptoms you describe.
 
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Michael Oritt

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Bob said "I don't mean to be insulting, but are both trunnions well-greased?"
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That was my thought as well but he did say that the steering was okay when on stands.
 

Bob_Spidell

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I did replace the bushing for the rocker shaft. The car was not drivable when I bought it, so I don't know what it was like before hand.


Those bushings usually need to be reamed. I don't think you'd have gotten the rocker shaft in if it wasn't, and you'd probably feel binding when on stands but, hey, we're grasping at straws here.
 

steveg

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Those bushings usually need to be reamed. I don't think you'd have gotten the rocker shaft in if it wasn't, and you'd probably feel binding when on stands but, hey, we're grasping at straws here.

If the rocker shaft was worn enough to not require reaming of the bushing, that could account for the 2" play even with a tight peg. Easy to check for sideways movement by observation at the Pittman arm.
 
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I did have the bushing reamed , there is no side to side movement. The idle arm is in good condition.
When the car is jacked up I can adjust the peg to a very small amount of steering wheel play and still have easy movement of the wheel from lock to lock
 
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I did notice your edit, but after looking at an exploded view of the front suspension, the spring is supporting the cars weight,which is attached to the kingpin. The weight of the car is then transferred to the axle by the trunnion (I think).
 
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Bob_Spidell

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I did notice your edit, but after looking at an exploded view of the front suspension, the spring is supporting the cars weight. Witch is attached to the kingpin. The weight of the car is then transferred to the axle by the trunnion.( I think )

Yeah. I was just thinking you might want to check the upper trunnion where the thrust washer is. If you have to replace the king pin or the lower trunnion you have to drop the springs (which is a PITA).
 

nevets

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Given that the tie rod ends were replaced, could there be an issue with wheel alignment /toe-in? How does the car track at speed with the steering wheel in the neutral position?
 

steveg

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Agree with Bob. Schematic of car weight on thrust washers:
WtOnThrustBearing.jpg

Possibilities:

If steering won't auto-return to center, back off on adjuster screw slightly.

Lube upper trunnion/thrust washers.

Replace thrust washers with needle bearing set, available from all the suppliers.

For 2" play: check fore and aft movement of worm in box. May need to reduce shims on front to bring to zero play. Read previous posts about accidentally unseating upper steering box ball bearing with catastrophic results.
 
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Thanks everyone, I'm chalking it up to a rookie mistake. An error in reassembly or using old parts where I shouldn't have. Since I have to dismantle the front end, I ordered a new kingpin kit and a torrington bearing kit. Probably won't start until after the holidays. Steve
 

steveg

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Thanks everyone, I'm chalking it up to a rookie mistake. An error in reassembly or using old parts where I shouldn't have. Since I have to dismantle the front end, I ordered a new kingpin kit and a torrington bearing kit. Probably won't start until after the holidays. Steve

Steve - you might not need a new kingpin kit. Maybe your swivel axle bushings are worn. If you jack up the spring pan you can rock the axle and see if there's any sideways play.

IIRC Randy Forbes on this forum can ream new bushings for you. Apologies to Randy if I've remembered this incorrectly.

PS - there's a lot of info on steering box issues in past threads here.
 
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