eBay woes

Hi all, I want to apologize for the long rant but I really need to get this off my chest and I'd like some feedback.

Today I had my first negative experience on ebay acquiring parts for my car.

Last week there was a front nose for a TR3 offered at auction. Opening bid at $99 with 0 takers and a "buy-it-now" set over $1200. To set the story, I'm gathering many different odds and ends for this toy of mine but the front end was not on my radar. In fact, the plan for that part was to simply do the body work on my original when the time comes. I read the description:

"Triumph Tr3 a front apron panel. Condition is Used. But outstanding .fully stripped to bare steel inside and out primed and edged in in dark carmine ready to install.has only one area of minor body work (see picture)
This is the nicest apron I have seen in 40+years Freight will not be cheap and will vary by your zip. ballpark 150$"

When I poured over the photos of this piece - it was immaculate. Absolutely no rust and only a tiny ding that was hammered out. It was a dream. I did some quick math on what I thought was a fair price plus freight to save me the trouble of having to weld and hammer the existing one. Since I was the only bidder the first bid didn't start at my top offer but started at $99. The larger surprise happened once I saw my first bid - NO RESERVE was posted. Usually something like that has a reserve. The seller was relatively new, but they had all positive feedback so I figured they knew enough and this would be a fun contest to ride out until outbid. Keep in mind, 9 days remained on the auction after my bid was placed. At this point I surmised I'd be outbid with my max price in no time. Part of the fun of this game is seeing if I can get a bargain... and I usually kiss more frogs than princes in the quest for a good price.

Well, as luck would have it, today the timer expired and I am now the winner of a $99 TR3 front end worth well more than what I just paid. This probably was a feeling similar to hitting the lottery (I don't really know because I've never hit the lottery but I expect it's the same). I was ecstatic. I immediately paid for my purchase and messaged the seller to ask how they wanted me to handle getting a bill of lading to them for the freight pickup. Hours passed. no reply. Finally the seller contacts me with this message:

"Sorry, I thought I made it clear that this was the nicest one I have seen in many years.
Had I thought that there was NO real interest in the item I would never have posted it.
There has been quite a lot of time and materials invested in the re-conditioning of this
really fine apron. Much much more than 99$ I can not give it away. So ,I apologize but
NO sale."

So much for winning the lottery. I understand the seller's position but this is an auction - there was no reserve and it was fairly won. My response to the seller was calm but annoyed:

"While I appreciate the prompt refund, this is not fair practice and will be reported to eBay. A deal is a deal. A fair bid was placed on the item and since there were no other bidders, the sale was closed with the opening amount. I do understand your frustration at not receiving an expected price but an auction is a binding sale to the highest bidder, period. Even if you feel the amount was too little. Buyers are also bound to a final sale and cannot retract if they feel they have paid too much. If a seller has a minimum amount they expect, a reserve must be placed on the item to prevent this very scenario."

Their followup to my response was something to the effect they made the mistake of not offering a reserve and could not reverse the action. I find that hard to believe. I'm pretty sure a seller can cancel the sale prior to the deadline.

Even though everything was refunded right away, I still feel cheated. I doubt the seller had any ill will nor did they intended to cheat me but I'm hung up on the principle. There's not much I can do but complain to ebay and the best that will happen is the seller will probably get a "bad" mark. I have a few things I'm still thinking through.

• were the seller's actions warranted (Am I being too harsh)?
• should I go easy on them since they explained the lack of reserve was a mistake?
• what's the point of an auction if a seller can just cancel like that after the sale?
• is there a proper grievance route through ebay that others have followed?
• should I stop using ebay?

Sorry for the long rant. I've acquired many fine things through ebay and this is my first bad taste. I have one other bid open on a rear fender that's sitting at about $50 that's up tomorrow and now I fear the same thing. I expect that to go well if I win based on this seller's history but once bitten, twice shy.

Thanks for listening.

You won the "auction". Seller blew it by not having a reserve.

When you reported this to Ebay, what response did you get?

Tom M.

Dumb mistake on the sellers part, no doubt, and you have the legal high ground, yes. This is a tough situation!

If you put yourself in the seller’s shoes. What would you have done? If you listed an item, say an overdrive transmission, and knew it to be worth a few grand, but the winning bid was $200. Would you take the “wrath of eBay” and keep the item?

I might, especially if the mistake was innocent.

In the situation you describe, it sounds like the $99 bid is less than 10% of the value. Pretty big gap.

But you need the part, the seller knows the demand is low... my suggestion is to ask the seller for his/her reasonable price, and make a decision. I expect you still would get a great deal for a quality part!

Good luck!

Popeye said:

Dumb mistake on the sellers part, no doubt, and you have the legal high ground, yes. This is a tough situation!


But you need the part, the seller knows the demand is low... my suggestion is to ask the seller for his/her reasonable price, and make a decision. I expect you still would get a great deal for a quality part!

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Yup - this way you both take the moral high ground.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts to this point. To answer the first post, I have not filed a grievance yet.

Popeye said:

If you put yourself in the seller’s shoes. What would you have done? If you listed an item, say an overdrive transmission, and knew it to be worth a few grand, but the winning bid was $200. Would you take the “wrath of eBay” and keep the item?

Click to expand...

That's the hangup. I would be tempted to do the same. The issue here is not the undervalue, it's the rules and purpose behind the whiole auction process. Whether at Christies or some backwater barn all sales are final and legally binding, regardless of the value.

Popeye said:

I might, especially if the mistake was innocent.

Click to expand...

If a seller truly realized the mistake before the auction closed, as was claimed in this case, shouldn't the seller cancel the auction and re-list with a reserve? I really want to believe this was innocent but I'm having difficulty with the excuse of not being able to change the listing.
ebay has very clear and easy to access guidelines regarding the termination of an auction. I got here after one click on their help page for sellers. http://ebay.com/help/selling/listin...a listing&intent=cancel&context=DEFAULT_BUYER which demonstrates several ways to back out well ahead of the deadline.
This makes me suspicious the seller was not being truthful in their actions and simply hoped for the best in order to avoid paying to re-list. Every listing removal incurs a fee. Regardless the real reason, we all make mistakes and have poor judgement. This is no exception.

Popeye said:

But you need the part, the seller knows the demand is low... my suggestion is to ask the seller for his/her reasonable price, and make a decision. I expect you still would get a great deal for a quality part!

Click to expand...

I do agree with this observation however I will not pursue acquiring items this through this seller. I'm not angry at this seller per se, just troubled by how it played out and how this undermines the spirit of the auction process and the whole online auction community.

The dilemma here is that we all need to play by the rules while at the same time we all need to be reasonable. I would expect to face some real harsh judgement from any buyer if the shoe was on the other foot and I skirted the rules of an auction - intentional or not. I would have an obligation to own up to my mistake and pay the consequences or willingly accept a full penalty for breaking the rules (up to a full ban) and move on. On the other hand, "The golden rule" applies here, especially if the intent was not deceitful. I would ask for mercy from the buyer and be grateful for a second chance. Because of this, I'm still torn about officially reporting the transaction.

Obviously, I've been thinking way too hard about this . Just stop me if i'm going too far.

I don't think you are thinking too hard - and, you are correct about being ripped off.

Not clear if you have reported it to Ebay but I would.

That said two thoughts.

1. Don't attempt to renegotiate a 'fairer' price with the seller. Walk away. If you are anything like me, if you pay more than $99 for the part it is going to p*ss you off every time you look at it - and will likely taint your relationship with the whole car. (ask me sometime about the 'bargain' media blasting I received.)

2. Let it go. Last year we got a new front door - without going into the whole sh*t show it became, I eventually realized that I had invested well over $1000 of my time in anger/ frustration/ emails/ letters/ phone calls trying to get about $400 back. (Last year I was part of a legal settlement where the other guy paid a lawyer $5000 to get an increase of $1500 in his settlement)

Sometimes it just isn't worth it. It was only ever a bonus in the process and not a necessity so, I would just get back to the car.

You're right, it was simply a bonus if i got it. Just finished reporting it. The ebay rep I spoke with read through the transaction history and informed me that it is an egregious violation of their terms of service. The seller was completely in the wrong and will have a disciplinary review. This will most likely will lead to a termination of the account. According to the representative it does not matter if it was $99, $999 or $0.99, a final sale is binding. The seller had the ability to fix the problem all along or even update the description to inform potential buyers of their intent.

I suspect anyone can simply create a new account and start over but I hope it prevents the behavior from repeating.

Thanks for everyone's input.

I had the same thing happen to me,but was on the opposite side of it.
I put up a 1962 Ford Consul Capri at "No Reserve",& it got bid to just $100.
I didn't like the outcome,but I felt that I needed to honor it.I contacted the
buyer a few times with my contact info,as I thought that they were in the LA area,
about a 12 hour drive away,& would want to make sure I'd be home when they came
to get it.
After repeated non- replies,I gave the buyer bad feedback.They came back shortly
by giving me bad feedback,& calling me a liar.I sent eBay all of my correspondence
with the "buyer",& they sided with them.
As I had 100% positive feedback at that point,I paid $20 to have the negative
removed,but the "buyer" got his negative removed for free.Turns out they were in
New England.
About 6 months later,someone told me to check out the "buyers" status.
Turns out that the got kicked off of eBay,for non payment of many auctions.
I never did get my $20 back,or an apology from eBay.
About 6 months later

Rusty - you hit the nail on the head. "The seller had the ability to fix the problem all along or even update the description to inform potential buyers of their intent."

Exactly.

Tom M.

The more I hear about E-Bay, the less likely I am to post items for sale there. Scammers, welshers, phonies...I would never sell a car without a reserve. It might be low, but there will be one. Most of the big auction houses will not allow a reserve on cars like most of us own.