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replacing walnut veneeron the dash

TomMull

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Re-veneering the dash:



The process starts with the dash removal, straight forward enough but time consuming and physically challenging to a guy well over the hill like myself. Lots of tubs and plastic bags and a labeling machine have hopefully kept all the wires and bits well organized.
Once removed I had two options, first to re-use the original plywood, the second to use the old one as a template make a new one, a fairly easy job with a router and flush trimming bit but I chose the first option. The original ply was very good quality, about 10 mm thick and 5 plies, not easily available and my wife had volunteered to strip off the old varnish and veneer. That was another time consuming job but straight forward.


Now for the veneer itself. The original on the Plus 2 was a fairly striking burl, traditionally English Walnut or European Walnut, not easy to come by particularly in the size needed for a dashboard. I’m not sure Colin was very concerned about the species either so I suspect what came on the cars was quite variable.


The options for replacement veneer types are quite numerous. There are plain or raw wood veneers, paper backed veneers, foil backed veneers, peel and stick veneers, “flexible” veneers and even plastic veneers.
I chose the raw wood veneer since I am as much interested in the process as the result even though I knew this would be the most difficult. What I wound up with after quite a bit of searching was two book-matched pieces of “American Walnut”. It’s quite figured but somewhat of a stretch to call it “burl” but it was available and reasonable. I got 2 bookmarked pieces for about $30. Much prefer to risk $30 than $200 on this experiment. Here is the raw veneer (two identical pieces.) In hindsight, a backed veneer would have eliminated most of the problems I encountered.


veneer.jpg





The press, the vacuum bag, and the iron.
The process of veneering varies with the materials and with my raw wood veneer there are several. My two book-matched pieces left quite a bit of scrap so I outlined the dash on the wood and used pieces of that scrap to experiment with.
The problem is that raw wood veneer is unstable. It is about .025 thick with grain in all directions.

http://www.richardjonesfurniture.com/Articles/flatten-veneer/flatten-veneer.html
After you get it flat, it will stay that was as long as the temperature and humidity stay constant, which of course is unlikely. In addition, the glue that I used, Titebond cold press veneer glue, is water based and it literally curled my veneer into a cylinder when I applied it to one side. I did have somewhat better results if I applied the glue only to the dash and not the veneer and allowed it to tack before I laid the veneer on it, but I could not get enough pressure on it to make it perfectly flay that way either.



The press that I built just would not exert enough pressure to flatten it. A vacuum press might do it but I didn’t have that option.
I will mention that I did not try to use the traditional method of using heated hide glue and a veneer hammer.


Here’s what I finally used and how I did it, with the household iron:
Since the Iron on method requires glue on both the veneer and the substrate, the first obstacle is how to get glue on the veneer without curling it into a cylinder. The solution was to wet the face side with a fine water spray then flipping it over with a couple of blocks on it to hold it roughly in place and then spreading the glue. With both sides moist it finally starts to behave, not flat by any means but manageable. I then let the glue that I spread on the veneer and substrate (dash) set overnight.
The next day, I placed the veneer in position on the dash, covered it with craft paper, and ironed it on with the iron set at the hottest setting.
The heat, along with the pressure I could exert with my arm set the glue and flattened the veneer at the same time.


Issues:
I did not glue the book match joint before hand which had been suggested. I did not see how a butt joint at 1/40th of an inch could be reliable and thought that the tape I had on it would hold as well but it did not. The lack of dimensional stability also warped that seam line and made it visible. Also note the edges of a defect in the veneer (faint red arrow) that I oriented so most of it would be in the ash tray cutout. Those pretty much went away with the lacquer, the wide seam is still noticeable.



wide seam.jpg







My plan was to leave the glove bx door out at this point and carefully cut out the laminate that laid over the opening and then lay it on the cover separately. This actually worked but I was not careful enough in clamping around the aperture and the knife tore the veneer a bit along on edge. This was my inattention to that detail rather than a fault in the process.


Here it is after 6 or seven coats of lacquer. I think it will do.

again.jpg

Tom
 

DrEntropy

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Good info, Tom. When the time comes, I'll have to decide about the burl walnut, my stubborn nature will likely overcome my better judgement. But with your experience and explanations it ~may~ get the result.

Thanks for sharing your work!
 
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TomMull

TomMull

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The burl (mine was heavily figured but not really burl at $30) should not be a problem if you get a quality veneer with backing.
I've also received my letter set. It looks as though it will work but is somewhat generic. It has all the labels, most in multiples, so there should be at least a complete set left over. They are all of one font size though and it appears that the originals varied. Here is my dash with the original veneer and I will post the new ones when I get them on.
lettering 2.jpg
Tom
 
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TomMull

TomMull

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Here is the new veneer with lettering:
lettering 5.jpg
The letters were from RD Enterprises in PA. The are not transfers but printed on a very transparent material. The material stays on and shows but barely. I covered them with a couple of coats of lacquer. Not for Pebble Beach but OK for Thursday night cruise in.
I did request a quote from a printer to have transfers custom made but have not gotten it yet, but surely a lot more than the $14 from JD.
Tom
 

Gliderman8

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When I veneered my the walnut dash on my TR6 I also went searching for someone with a vacuum press but had no luck finding one. What I ended up doing was taking two pieces of plywood slightly larger than the dash. I then mapped out all the openings for the gauges and switches in both pieces of plywood.
In the center of these openings I installed a carriage bolt. Once I applied the adhesive to the dash, I put down the veneer then I "sandwiched" the dash between the two pieces of plywood with the carriage bolts going through the dash openings and into the top piece of plywood. I used wing-nuts with large flat washers to tighten the two pieces of plywood together. In essence, I made a "press" to keep pressure on the veneer until the glue dried.
 
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TomMull

TomMull

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When I veneered my the walnut dash on my TR6 I also went searching for someone with a vacuum press but had no luck finding one. What I ended up doing was taking two pieces of plywood slightly larger than the dash. I then mapped out all the openings for the gauges and switches in both pieces of plywood.
In the center of these openings I installed a carriage bolt. Once I applied the adhesive to the dash, I put down the veneer then I "sandwiched" the dash between the two pieces of plywood with the carriage bolts going through the dash openings and into the top piece of plywood. I used wing-nuts with large flat washers to tighten the two pieces of plywood together. In essence, I made a "press" to keep pressure on the veneer until the glue dried.
Thanks for the reply, that's a good way to do it although my attempt at making a suitable press failed. I couldn't get the wrinkles out of the veneer. Maybe mine would have worked if I had spent time making a better press.
Having now tried the iron on method, I'm sold. No press needed.
Tom
 
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TomMull

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Now I can appreciate the work that went into it. Nice job, D.
Tom
 

Grantura_MKI

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Cheers, Tom. Picture doesn’t show it, but it has a painted edge as per original. Put about 7 coats of clear on it.
The bit I am not fond of is cutting out the holes.
 
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TomMull

TomMull

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Cheers, Tom. Picture doesn’t show it, but it has a painted edge as per original. Put about 7 coats of clear on it.
The bit I am not fond of is cutting out the holes.

I used a 1/4 inch flush trim bit in my small router. Mine had a plunge cutter on it too but you could drill a pilot hole also. The holes in the original dash acted as guides. Mine had a painted edge also which is almost completely covered by trim so I left it as it was.

The only part I had trouble with was the glove box door. I couldn't use the router because I wanted to keep the piece of veneer to put on the cover so the grain pattern would match. I managed to do an imperfect but good enough job with a craft knife.

In hindsight, I would have placed the dash with the cover in place, with some removable glue on the backside, onto a flat surface and then ironed the veneer onto both at once. Cutting the 1/42 inch thick unsupported veneer with a craft knife turned out to be a challenge and I got a couple on little chips on one edge.

Tom
 

DrEntropy

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Cheers, Tom. Picture doesn’t show it, but it has a painted edge as per original. Put about 7 coats of clear on it.
The bit I am not fond of is cutting out the holes.

"Baby Poop Brown" edges, IIRC. Recognize that transmission, too.

Pal and former partner has a P-5 in the shop with a wiper motor replacement. I've gone to the shop to install the rebuilt motor but run into a real problem: all the colors on the cotton fabric of the wiring harness have faded into oblivion. Stripped the cover of the harness under-dash and found the wiring faded the entire length. There is no place I've found to get a pin-out of this two-speed switch, all references rely on the color code of the wiring. Factory manual diagrams all have a different switch than the one here. Ohmed the switch wiring to ID each wire independent of the switch, labeled them at the firewall according to the numbers on the switch body. Will make the 100-mile round trip to the shop again for the fourth time, to chase the electrons from switch-to-motor at some point in the coming days. Had to remove the wood facia a couple times now to get at the switch, always with ultimate care so as not to mark or mar the piece. If anyone wonders why Rolls cars were so expensive, exposing the instruments and their attachment to the metal panel under all that beautiful wood could be a good illustration. It looks more like an aircraft instrument panel than an automobile.

In the Elans the dashboard actually becomes part of the structural integrity of the body. A "beautified" plywood stress-member and another illustration of Chapman's genius. :thumbsup:
 
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TomMull

TomMull

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My Elan has the same issue with the wires, colors completely faded. I was careful to label them as I took them off so could re-use if necessary but would prefer to get a new harness. Autosparks in the UK is saying 3 months and British Wiring says the same or longer.

As for structural integrity, my dash measures about 3/8th of an inch thick and has less than an inch and a half of total material around the dash cutout and speedo and tach. Not much of a beam but granted that strategically bolted in place will add some strength to the structure. It is also very high quality plywood having 7 plies and no voids. I'm not sure you can even get that today.
Tom
 

DrEntropy

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Tom said:
It is also very high quality plywood having 7 plies and no voids. I'm not sure you can even get that today.


You're likely right, Tom.

A couple things you likely already know, but ACBC was an aircraft engineer and de Havilland's Mosquito was no disappointment. :wink:
 

Grantura_MKI

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Was sort out a schyte servo...I know you have been there. The wiring is all different on every pre war car...another sore subject.
Bad thing is that nowadays no one can work on them, or wants to.
 

DrEntropy

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Every coach builder had their own ideas as to wiring and building a body. One client had purchased a P-2, learned after the fact what it would take to restore it, now the body panels adorn the walls of a pool room. :wink:

Grantura_MkI said:
Bad thing is that nowadays no one can work on them, or wants to.


We're a dying breed, my friend.
 

DrEntropy

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Got that wiring sorted with the Rolls, NOS switch located and installed, wiper motor rebuilt for the second time, it now functions correctly. Put an article on the front of the Forum for DR-3 hook-up figuring some owners of our LBC's using a two-speed wiper may find it useful. A 1-2-3 explanation, coupled with what's out there on the 'net for same should "fill in the blanks" so-to-speak.
 
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