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Thread: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

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    Yoda PAUL161's Avatar
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    Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    I had to replace a pressure sensitive switch in my big tractor AC system, which meant the system had to be recharged. I read about this new refrigerant and thought of trying in one of my tractors to see how well it works. Odd as it specifies, do not evacuate the system!.It'll be a few days before I can get to it, but as soon as i can I can evaluate how well it works. Trying to find an environmentally safer product. PJ
    EVsafe.jpg

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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Let us know how that works.
    John, BN4

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    Yoda HealeyRick's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    I thought R134a was the environmentally safe replacement for Freon. What's the advantage to this? Am rebuilding an AC system for R134 in an 80s BMW and would be interested in what the latest refrigerant is. The other question, does it cool as good as the prior stuff?
    Rick

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    Yoda TOC's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    To date, most auto manufacturers are using the hydrofluoroolefin (HFO) refrigerant R-1234yf as the replacement of choice for R134a. The 2013 Cadillac XTS was the first U.S.made vehicle to use the new refrigerant. With a GWP of 4 (instead of 1,430 for R-134a) R-1234yf is more environmentally friendly.

    There is no phase out date for HFCs.
    On September 26, 2016, the EPA announced that, under the EPA SNAP (Significant New Alternatives Policy) program, specific refrigerants including R134a and R410A can no longer be used in new chillers, effective January 1, 2024.

    https://www.achrnews.com/articles/13...134a?v=preview

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    Yoda PAUL161's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    I was told that 134 is going the way of R12 did and the Envirosafe chemical is a replacement for R134a and supposedly not the same. I'll let you guy know if it chills, it'll be a few days until I can get to it. PJ

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    Yoda HealeyRick's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Since I'm basically building the system from the ground up for 134a, guess I'll have to do some more research before it's time for the refrigerant fill.
    Rick

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    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Paul's the guinea pig!

    I'll be curious as to the comparison with 134a. Any other changes needed? Evap valve or a lubricant? Puzzling is the "no evacuation" thing.
    '64 MGB, '67 Lotus Elan S-3 DHC,'69 Lotus Elan +2
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    Yoda PAUL161's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    retro-original-ge-monitor-top-antique-refrigerator-works_57.jpgAs a kid, we had a refrigerator like this, it's refrigerant was Ammonia! Worked very well, until it developed a leak and ran us all out of the house! Had to hold our breath and run in and open windows as fast as we could. Man that was bad stuff!

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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    There's an episode of Andy Griffith where "Gomer" attempts to fix an old freezer on the back porch and causes an ammonia leak. Darn near kills Andy, Opie and Aunt Bee.
    The smallest act of kindness is worth more than the grandest intention. - Oscar Wilde

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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    From the Envirosafe website, the composition is propane, butane and dipentene: https://www.es-refrigerants.com/docs/58514_744.pdf. It's flammable.
    John, BN4

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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    So....propane and butane are better for the environment?
    At least now if you have a leak in your auto's a/c system and an arcing plug wire, a broom and dustpan will clean up the remains?

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    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    "Take precautionary measures against static discharge." !?!?

    That's reason enough to dissuade me from trying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TOC
    So....propane and butane are better for the environment?
    At least now if you have a leak in your auto's a/c system and an arcing plug wire, a broom and dustpan will clean up the remains?


    How about in shops, too? Leak in a system, someone strikes an arc nearby to weld up some piece... "WOOF!"
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    Yoda PAUL161's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Have to disagree, to a point. These Propane/Butane tractors were originally set up for Butane, but they switched to Propane as it gave more power, tractors have been using it for years and I've never known a farmer that was blown up from using them. Well, my TF caught fire from a gas leak many years ago and and when I bought the car I had to replace sheet metal from the damage, the driver was very lucky and walked away after he hit a guard rail during the incident, so is gasoline less dangerous than Propane, I don't think so, it depends on the individual using it and the equipment it's used in.
    Butane farm tractor.jpg

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    Yoda dklawson's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL161 View Post
    As a kid, we had a refrigerator like this, it's refrigerant was Ammonia!
    That fridge is a GE Monitor. My dad kept one in our garage until about 1990. It was still working when he finally got rid of it. Ours had an interesting problem. It was built before grounded appliances and outlets were the norm. Dad ran a dedicated ground wire from the metal frame of the fridge to a ground stake he placed in the crawl space. If/when that wire got disconnected the fridge would shock the snot out of you!


    Using propane as a refrigerant is not a new idea. According to a neighbor in the industrial refrigeration business, propane has been used as a coolant in Europe for a long time. Apart from flammability... it's a cool idea.
    Doug L.
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Propane has been a sub for household refrigerant. Neighbor is an HVAC and told me about this. Now imagine the troubles with lithium batteries exploding in car crashes, now add propane, butane and firefighters have their handsful.
    Larry K
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    Yoda PAUL161's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    I think it was around 1949 when we got run out of the house as the old frige sprung a leak! Pop bought mom a new Philco and it was loaded with space! Oh yeah, she loved the oversize freezer! As I remember it looked like this. Amazing how far we have come from then.

    49 Philco Frige.jpg

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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL161 View Post
    Have to disagree, to a point. These Propane/Butane tractors were originally set up for Butane, but they switched to Propane as it gave more power, tractors have been using it for years and I've never known a farmer that was blown up from using them. Well, my TF caught fire from a gas leak many years ago and and when I bought the car I had to replace sheet metal from the damage, the driver was very lucky and walked away after he hit a guard rail during the incident, so is gasoline less dangerous than Propane, I don't think so, it depends on the individual using it and the equipment it's used in.
    Butane farm tractor.jpg
    Air conditioning seems a bit useless on that tractor.
    John, BN4

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    Jedi Knight
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant


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    Yoda TOC's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Bit of a difference between all these scenarios. Tractor was designed for propane, either originally or the equipment to make it to. Shut off when power killed, regulators, all that, hoses designed for the purpose (and I have work of propane vehicles).
    Refrigerators/freezers generally (but not always) used in fairly spark free environments, and usually no hoses, sealed compressors, all that.

    Add propane/butane to under bonnet installations could be a big issue.
    I've done a lot of A/C work over the decades on motor vehicles.

    Compressor shaft seals leak. Hoses leak. Banjo fittings leak. Schraeder valves leak. Condensors leak. Evaporators leak.

    The only good thing is the limited quantity in the system.

    Boom.

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    Yoda dklawson's Avatar
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    Re: Envirosafe R134a replacement refrigerant

    Quote Originally Posted by PAUL161 View Post
    .... As I remember it looked like this. Amazing how far we have come from then.
    Dad kept our GE Monitor in the garage while the house had the "newer", late 1950s Kelvinator that looked a lot like your Philco. Mom LOVED the Kelvinator for the first 6 months. After that the refrigerator makers introduced auto-defrost. For the next 30 years my mom complained when the freezer had to be defrosted and cleaned. She was very happy when in the 1980s she finally got a "modern" fridge.
    Doug L.
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