Ford Versus Ferrari Question

[Lin]

For those who saw the movie "Ford versus Ferrari." On the Phil Remington quick change rotor/caliper assembly, how do they avoid having to bleed the brakes?
Just curious.

Lin

[CaptRandy]

Don't think the caliper was removed, only flipped out of the way and new pads installed

[Roger]

Exactly, they had quick-change pads and discs. They didn't change wishbones etc.

[Lin]

Roger and Randy,
Roger, Did you see the movie? Suspension components were replaced. Randy, that is what I would have thought also, but I think I remember that the caliper complete with new pads was also replaced. Might be wrong. Guess I will need to go see it again! Poor me.
Lin

[Lin]

I have done some more googling and reading. Looks like a quick way of moving the caliper out of the way was devised.

[mikephillips]

If in the movie they replaced the caliper, was probably "artistic license"..

[HealeyRick]

While the movie did a nice job featuring Ken Miles, it really gave Phil Remington short shrift. I'm not sure they even mentioned his last name. At any rate, if you're not familiar what an impressive guy Remington was, you should read this: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...hil-remington/

[Editor_Reid]

While the movie did a nice job featuring Ken Miles, it really gave Phil Remington short shrift. I'm not sure they even mentioned his last name. At any rate, if you're not familiar what an impressive guy Remington was, you should read this: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...hil-remington/

That's a beautifully written story. Thanks for the link.

[dklawson]

IF they had wanted to make the calipers quickly removable it would have been possible with flush-face, no-drip couplers from companies like Staubli. These would have allowed connecting and disconnecting the brake lines with minimal to no ingress of air or loss of fluid. I don't know if these were available in the 1960s but I worked with their industrial equivalent since 1999.

Link to Staubli Flush-Face, No-Drip Couplers.

[pdplot]

What did Jaguar do when they won LeMans with disc brakes?

[Bob_Spidell]

In the movie, though, IIRC, they replaced the whole A-arm assembly; I was shaking my head when I saw it. That might be quicker than removing rotor, caliper, etc. and maybe they pressure-bled somehow?

I think we're all curious because getting a good pedal on a Healey can be a real pain.

[roscoe]

Thank you for posting the link to the story. I think I can do a lot of stuff but reading this, it seems like some people have had magical lives and wizardly skils and yet would be the first to deny they were anything special. At least now I know how I'll zip my fly when my hands are too gnarled to work a zipper (and believe me that ain't too far down the road). It's one thing to use technology and alltogether something else to develop it. I'm not sure if there is even a path to being like the man described in this article anymore.

[Lin]

Rick,
that article really is a great tribute to Remington. I appreciate that you shared it. Wouldn’t it have been fun (and hard work) to apprentice with a fellow like that.

I don’t mean to insult anyone who owns one, but I have never been a fan of the over-muscled (just my opinion) 427 Cobras. However, that original 289 AC cobra was just a sweet looking car to my eye.
Lin

[HealeyRick]

Lin,

You probably need to blame an Austin-Healey guy for the 427 Cobra. Read the story of how Ted Sutton got the job of putting the big motor into the Cobra: https://www.kpcnews.com/newssun/arti...2c451ec6e.html

[vette]

Rick, haven’t read ur article yet but I’ve read about Rem before, he was very much under praised.
About the brakes. I wonder if their attitude might have been to sacrifice a little air in the system for the fast turn around in the pits. In most cases unhooking the brake line at the caliper won’t even create a drip and if the new caliper is filled to the max not much air would be ingested. Many mechanics today when changing a caliper never bleed the brakes.

[Bob_Spidell]

... Many mechanics today when changing a caliper never bleed the brakes.

Do you know that for a fact? Any mechanic who didn't bleed the system after opening it up would be negligent, and liable in a lawsuit if there was a subsequent accident. I think when you get the $19.95/axle 'brake job' at Midas all you get is new pads or shoes, though (they may try to upsell rotors, drums, etc. and they may be required).

On another note, in the movie Miles found the brakes overheated on a test run, hence the 'quick change' procedure Remington developed. The movie shows the brake pedal going to the floor suddenly, I can't imagine worn pads would cause that, but boiling fluid could.

[vette]

I do know that for fact. I have at least 3 personal friends who are mechanics, one in a dealership, and two who own private shops. They think I am nuts for waisting my time doing bleeding when I need to change a caliper.
Yep boiling would make the pedal go down. It also would make the fluid flow when you disconnect the pipe. Fluid running out the pipe would be a good thing. That way no air getting in. If then attached to a fully filled caliper not much air if any would get in. As long as the reservoir didn’t get too low.

[Roger]

I saw what they did in the movie, but that's not what happened in fact. Fancy that, the movies inventing stuff!

[steveg]

Executive summary - Phil Remington built a system for quick-changing of the pads & rotors - not the entire suspension.

This site answers all the questions above:

http://www.historyvshollywood.com/re...ord-v-ferrari/

[Bob_Spidell]

I do know that for fact. I have at least 3 personal friends who are mechanics, one in a dealership, and two who own private shops. They think I am nuts for waisting my time doing bleeding when I need to change a caliper.
Yep boiling would make the pedal go down. It also would make the fluid flow when you disconnect the pipe. Fluid running out the pipe would be a good thing. That way no air getting in. If then attached to a fully filled caliper not much air if any would get in. As long as the reservoir didn’t get too low.

Of course, we all know private shops and dealers would never take shortcuts on jobs they do all the time, right? If someone opened up my brake system and didn't bleed afterwards I would never use that shop again; just because you can get away with it 999 times out of a thousand doesn't mean it's the proper procedure (and the plaintiff's lawyer in a lawsuit would bring it up if there was an accident involving the brakes, and you wouldn't want me on the jury).

How often do you swap out calipers? I've had mine off once in 35years/145K miles for rebuild--that I can recall, at least--but I've had to replace several clutch and brake cylinders. The job just isn't done that often, you've got the car up on jackstands or a lift with the wheels off, why wouldn't you take 20 minutes to bleed/flush the system while you're at it? All the shop manuals I've read, for several makes, specify a complete fluid flush every 2-3 years. That may be overkill but you can't say it's a bad idea; DoT 3&4 are hygroscopic--they absorb atmospheric moisture readily (read the label on the bottle)--and DoT 5 causes moisture to pool in the low spots. Suspension and brakes are no place to half-ass a job; if the engine doesn't start you don't go, but if the brakes fail you don't stop.

In the movies or on the track, you might get away with a somewhat softer pedal for a few miles; it's a calculated risk. Not worth it on a 'family' car.