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Thread: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

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    Darth Vader longbridgehealey's Avatar
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    BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Shortly before he passed away, my friend Doug Reid (Mr Finespanner) sent a prototype 4 way flasher unit for my Longbridge built BN4. He said he’d show me how to hook it up the next time he was at our house. Unfortunately that never came to pass as he passed away shortly thereafter. A you all should know by now I am somewhat “electrically challenged”, so I’m posting pictures of it here in the hopes someone will say “Well that’s pretty simple, just do this and this”.
    the two wires that enter the sleeve are green and yellow and green and blue. The single wire is green and brown. There is a separate wire that is green, however he marked it with a black stripe on one end and either a black or brown stripe on the other end. As always, Thanks in advanced.

    larry
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    Last edited by longbridgehealey; 10-14-2019 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Forgot to include “4 way”
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    Darth Vader longbridgehealey's Avatar
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Short separate wire
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    Never tease an old dog, he might have one bite left.
    Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Hello Larry, I'll have a go at this. i have schmatics for the 6 cyl cars. But Dougs use of colours especially on the switch don't really match anything exactly. I'll attach a few pics to help along the way. Firstly, are the terminals on the flasher marked. Most of the Healey terminals are marked with L. P. & B.

    The L. terminal does use a Green/Brown wire and this wire then goes to the #1 terminal on the stop/turnsignal relay on the left side inner fender well. The B terminal gets the power wire from the ignition switch and on later cars it has another wire on it and that wire goes to the common terminal on the trafficator. Both the wires on the B terminal are normally green and here is were Dougs colours deviate. But he may have dilibritely done that to differentiate that one is power from the ignition sw and the other is power going to the trafficator. I don't really know why he has used a separate toggle switch because the trafficator would do all the switching. So then it can be seen that if power is coming to the switch on one of the two green/something wires then with the switch in the on position power will then go to the flasher unit. The flasher unit sends "flashed power" to the #1 terminal of the stop/turnsignal relay. The trafficator pulls the relay right or left and the flashed power from #1 terminal goes to the appropriate light bulbs.
    Another irregularity is that it appears that Doug has not used the 3rd terminal on the flasher unit. Well that can be ok because that terminal which should be marked "P" is used to energize the turnsignal indicator on the Dash. The system will work without it. I have attached some pictures to maybe help. Please excuse my quick rough drawing. Good Luck.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Just saw this, thanks a lot for taking the time to unscramble it. Probably going to tackle it next week, putting an alternator and volt meter in tomorrow, then work the rest of the week. I’ll keep you posted! Thanks again,
    Larry
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Is that supposed to make a 4-way flasher? That would explain the separate switch.
    John, BN4

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Yes, four way flasher.
    Never tease an old dog, he might have one bite left.
    Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. You never said "4 - WAY" . That changes the whole game, all bets are off. I couldn't figure why you would need an alternate circuit for your turnsignals. Well Good luck, My ideas don't apply to 4-ways.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    SORRY! Just looked at my post and I certainly didn’t. Yeah, it was to add a four way flasher to a Longbridge built Healey. My fault for not being clear... Doug occasionally used our BB4 as a test model, so to speak. So it’s back to anybody have any ideas?
    Last edited by longbridgehealey; 10-14-2019 at 09:01 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Never tease an old dog, he might have one bite left.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Larry, I'm glad you came back to see this again. Yes, I have to say that my circuit and ideas will not work to flash a
    4-way flasher scenario. Don't hook up to the #1 terminal of the turnsignal/stop light relay because that relay can not go to both right and left bulbs at the same time. And don't run another wire to the trafficator because the trafficator can only pull the relay right or left but not right & left. Sorry this didn't work out.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    No worries, eventually will figure it out. Thanks again!
    Never tease an old dog, he might have one bite left.
    Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Would the 4-way flasher be an ignition "ON" function, like brake lights and turn signals or a separate circuit? The wiring loom looks to carry a switched brown wire - perhaps this is an always "HOT" power source similar to the headlights?

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Larry, Well this has been like the old story of a brain teaser that won't go away. So I've taken another look at this. No i have not here-to-fore paid much attention to 4 way flasher circuits so just to state that qualification up front. But I do a lot of wiring in cars and construction and I believe this is really a rather simple job. The whole idea hinges on the premise that a two pronge flasher will flash it's "power out" terminal as long as it's "power in" terminal is hot and there is a load attached to the "out" terminal. Then also to get the bulbs on the four corners of the car to flash we must provide the flashing voltage to the appropriate terminals on the "stop/turnsignal relay"
    If you look at the drawing of the stop/turnsignal relay that I have provided it would simply be a matter of attaching the output wire from the "out" terminal of the new 4-way flasher to terminal 6,7, 2 & 3. Now this has no negative downside to the exiting operation and circuit in the car as it stands. So if you will look at the picture of the relay and follow my train of thought through the relay as it stands in its original operation. You will see that terminals 7 & 3 go to the brake light filaments. And they are only hot when you step on the brake pedal because they get their power from terminal #5
    which gets it's power when you step on the brake and close the brake switch. Terminals 7 & 3 are dead unless you step on the brake pedal. So if you attach another wire from the new flasher to 7 & 3 you will flash the rear brake filaments. And this will have no negative effect on the existing circuit because 7 & 3 are dead most of the time anyway and when you do step on the brake 7 & 3 will get non-flashed power from the brake light switch and the rear filaments will stay on solid as the brake pedal is down. The voltages will not conflict because they are the same voltage just from one source it flashes and from the other source it is solid.
    Now with terminals 6 & 2 you have the same scenario. They have the wire on them that goes to the front turnsignals and they are dead all the time except when the trafficator it moved one way or the other. So you attach a wire also from your new flasher output terminal to terminals 6 & 2 on
    the brake/turnsignal relay. This will effectively flash the front bulbs. There would be no feed back to the existing turnsignal flasher unless you also moved the tafficator left or right. In this case, if you were to move the trafficator one way or the other the contacts in the relay would close and terminals 6 & 2 would get power from the existing turnsignal flasher and the new four way flasher at the same time and I believe nothing would flash because each flasher would override the other.
    I don't believe that the interconnection of the two flashers in this last scenario would be detrimental to the flashers or their associated circuits. But of course if you leave the trafficator straight up when the 4-ways are on you would never have the two flashers interconnected.
    Their could be a much more sophisticated circuit designed with the application of another relay to open the existing circuit to the turnsignal flasher when the four way flasher is turned on. But I must be honest, I'm more of a minimalist and do not like to add complex wiring solutions to old cars. It's just the way I am, I like to keep it simple. Again in all honesty I am not sure what will happen it the two flashers become interconnected thru the scenario that both the trafficator and the 4-way are turned on at the same time. But from my knowledge of the flashers I don't think it will hurt anything. At worse it would blow a fuse or burn out a flasher. Well just my thoughts.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Please forgive my miscellaneous ramblings on this, just thinking out load. I just realized that my circuit has a terminal flaw. As many know the difficulty in doing this with the Healey is that the Healey uses the same light filament for the brake light and the rear turn signal. The circuit that I described in my previous post will flash the lights sufficiently but are in conflict with the normal operation of the brake lights and the turn signal lights. If you would be to connect the 4-way flasher to terminals 6,7,3 & 2
    Then when you hit the brake pedal all the bulbs would be on. And when you turn one turn signal on all the bulbs would flash. So that obviously is not a favorable condition. I have attached another drawing delineating my latest thought process trying to build on the circuit elements that Larry's friend Doug had started with and It shows a valid circuit up to the point where we must connect the output of the new flasher to terminals 6,7,2 & 3 but it is not finished because you can't tie all those terminals together. So I envision this is where you could use a relay to have normally open contacts open up four individual wires to those terminals during the normal operation of the brakes and turnsignals.
    So as I said before, the circuit can get complex and it is one that I probably would not install in my car. You know my keep it simple philosophy.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Well , I was going to take a shot at this late next week, but the whole process kinda makes my brain hurt... normal state for me and electronics. Probably try anyway next Thursday or Fri.
    Thanks!
    Keep thinking!!

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    This circuit will work. With the N/O (normally open) contacts open the stop/turnsignal relay will operate normally. There would be no interconnection of any circuits. When the 3-way toggle switch is moved to the left to energize the 4-way circuit this would de-energize the normal turnsignal flasher and the trafficator so there would be no risk of the turnsignals and 4-way circuits coming on together. The new relay is shown as if it has 4 normally open contacts but if a relay with 4 contacts is not available you could use 2 relays with 2 contacts each. You'll notice that when the "B" terminal of the 4-way flasher is energized that this also will energize the pull-in coil of the new relay there-by closing the Normally Open contacts and completing the circuits to terminals 6, 7, 2 & 3.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Ok, probably going to tackle this in the next week or so, thanks for all your work on this, I’ll let you know how it all works out.
    Never tease an old dog, he might have one bite left.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Larry, there is a variation between the early 6 cyl cars and the later 6 cyl cars before you get to the dual light system in the BJ8s. You might run into this so I better cover it. My last circuit configuration works on the later 6 cyl cars up to the BJ8. But I then realized that in the very early 6 cyl cars the trafficator did not gets its power from the "B" terminal of the turnsignal flasher. In the early 6 cyl cars the trafficator gets its power directly from the top fuse in the fuse box. In the later 100/6 and the early 3000s they moved this wire for the trafficator down to the "B" terminal of the turnsignal flasher. Probably this was done to minimize the number of wires at the fuse.
    So as I drew the circuit in the last drawing when you turn the 3-way switch to the 4-way flasher side it will not de-energize the trafficator on the early 6 cyl cars because the trafficator is not powered off the "B" terminal of the flasher. I was thinking of the later cars when I drew this. With the circuit installed as my last drawing the trafficator could turn on the turnsignals at the same time as the 4-ways are on. This is what I was intending to avoid and is not desirable.
    So to remedy this situation on the early 6 cyl cars, just remove the trafficator's power wire from the fuse holder and move it to the "B" terminal of the turnsignal flasher, with it this way when you move the 3-way switch over to the 4-way position it will turn off the trafficator.
    Well, one more thing. . As I said earlier this could get complicated but consider that we are almost there. As I have drawn it it will work perfectly fine. But if you step on the brake pedal when the 4-ways are on the brake pedal will feed constant 12v thru terminal 5 on the stop/turn relay into terminals 7 & 3 which will backfeed 12v thru the new relay and into the 4-way flasher. This might cause the 4-way flasher to burn out. But I really don't think so because it will not be adding any current to the circuit. The current load on the flasher will remain at what the four bulbs
    at the four corners of the car draw. To remedy any feed back from the brake circuit will take another relay. It will take a relay with a Normally Closed (NC) contact. This NC contact would have the wire from the brake switch going thru it before it gets to terminal #5 on the stop/turn relay. The pull in coil of this final relay would be energized from the 4-way flasher side of the 3-way switch. That way when the 3-way switch is turned to the 4-way flasher side it would open this NC. contact and there-by de-energize terminal #5.
    In reality, many relays that you buy for automotive purposes have both N.O. and N.C. contacts built into them. So depending on what relay you buy it may have an extra or an available N.C. contact. I have attached pics of the two schmatics for early 6 cyl cars and later 6 cyl cars. Take note of the difference in how the trafficator gets it's power. You want it to get it's power from the "B" terminal of the TURN SIGNAL FLASHER.

    https://www.mouser.com/Electromechan...YaApZkEALw_wcB

    I think we have finally covered everything.
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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    vette, Wow, I've been reading this as you developed it and I'm impressed at the work and detail you have put in. Very clear and simple seeming but electrical has never been a strong point for me so I wouldn't have even tried without this info.

    I'm not quite to the wiring yet on my BT7 project but I am going to do this.

    I was already planning on the extra stop & turn lights in the rear reflectors and this 4 way flasher set-up will make me feel a lot more comfortable in case of a breakdown.

    Thank you!
    Dave

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    [QUOTE=red57;1123403] Very clear and simple seeming but electrical has never been a strong point for me so I wouldn't have even tried without this info.

    Thank you for your comments but i want to guard against its simplicity. I think to make this work in a practical manner you must consider how and where you will mount the relays. I can envision a small metal plate maybe 6"X 6" with the relays mounted there-in. It will be necessary to make convenient termination points for each of the electrical connections. Maybe making some neat and obvious labeling for each wire. You must consider that if at any time in the future when there might be an electrical failure anywhere in the car, anyone looking at this additional circuitry will be totally confused. ( since I have a completely altered electrical system in my BJ7, I have the equivalent of BJ8 lighting arrangement in a BJ7, I had to pretty much create my own wiring harness when I restored the car because there is no such harness available that would adapt such things as early dash layout with lights and turnsignals with no stop/turn relay.) So I decided to make accurate drawings of my car's electrical system and then laminate the sheets and carry them in the boot. It would be a good ideal to do the same with additions such as this. Good Luck with your project.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Re: BN4 Longbridge flasher unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by vette View Post
    ... So I decided to make accurate drawings of my car's electrical system and then laminate the sheets and carry them in the boot. It would be a good ideal to do the same with additions such as this. Good Luck with your project.
    I totally agree (I've done mine). For years, I've had to work on someone else's system where they didn't update the drawings.
    John, BN4

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