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Thread: one less fortress

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  1. #21
    Jedi Warrior Rhodyspit75's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Thanks for sharing that Rick. I believe we were there at the same time a couple of years ago. Amazing place full of history. Such a tragic event yesterday.
    "Age considers; youth ventures." Rabindranth Tagore
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    Yoda waltesefalcon's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    I read about this yesterday evening. It's a terrible tragedy and all I can say is Godspeed.
    Cheers,
    Walter
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    Obi Wan
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    Re: one less fortress

    How many of these things are still flying? I've seen one in Florida along with a B-24 and a B-25.

  4. #24
    Jedi Knight
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    Re: one less fortress

    According to the news last night the #4 failed for some reason and they were attempting a return. What I wonder is if metal fatigue of some sort played into it. Couldn't find a last built date for the R-1820 series but I see seems to indicate probably 1940s. So we're talking major mechanical components in the 70+ range. Depite their best efforts at maintenance, cranks, cases and such may just wear out and break, and new big bits just don't exist anymore.

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    Yoda TOC's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Six or seven dead in report this morning.
    Thirteen on the AC when it went in.

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    Yoda TOC's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Took a while, but here is page one covering the 1995 incident:
    1995News909Crash.jpg

  7. #27
    Great Pumpkin NutmegCT's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Here's a link to the NTSB ongoing investigation. Conjecture is always a bit dicey.

    https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...RA20FA001.aspx

    Regarding engines, the Collings Fdn. rebuilds those things until they're like new, often with new manufacture or NOS. From the clanking/banging sound as the a/c passed over us, I'm thinking a blown engine, which caused loss of power and damage to control cables at touch down. But that is pure conjecture. Note the a/c had power problems at takeoff, immediately circled to land, touched down early before threshold, striking guidance signal towers, veering to the right and stopping on the concrete pad of the Bradley fire control service, where the a/c broke apart, exploded, and burned.

    Time will (usually) tell.
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    Re: one less fortress

    True, time will tell. Just thoughts since even with rebuild to like new the major components like the crankcase, reduction gear case, crankshaft and big bits apparently are original manufacture due to unavailability of new manufacture and I just wonder how long service life for that stuff may be.

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    Yoda PAUL161's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    The weight of the aircraft was well within the ability of 3 engines to maintain flight, sounds like another problem arose out of it. I am curious why they made such an abrupt turn around and make a short down leg onto final and doing so hit an obstruction, which led to the loss of all control. We will have to wait for the NTSB report to hopefully get answers. It's a tragedy in more ways than one, mainly the loss of life.

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    Yoda John Turney's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Quote Originally Posted by mikephillips View Post
    According to the news last night the #4 failed for some reason and they were attempting a return. What I wonder is if metal fatigue of some sort played into it. Couldn't find a last built date for the R-1820 series but I see seems to indicate probably 1940s. So we're talking major mechanical components in the 70+ range. Depite their best efforts at maintenance, cranks, cases and such may just wear out and break, and new big bits just don't exist anymore.
    I have a friend who loves flying in the Ford Trimotor of about 1929 vintage. I suspect it's not as highly stressed, but at 90 years old, that's a lot of time for an aircraft.
    John, BN4

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    Great Pumpkin NutmegCT's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Mac & Phyllis Take a Trip: http://nutmegflyer.com/trip-details-daily-updates/
    History: 1976 MGB, 1959 Triumph TR3A, 1960 Mercedes-Benz 190b, 1958 Rambler American.
    Current: 1953 MG TD27318.

  12. #32
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    Re: one less fortress

    Quote Originally Posted by NutmegCT View Post
    "days long investigation?"
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  13. #33
    Great Pumpkin NutmegCT's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Quote Originally Posted by JPSmit View Post
    "days long investigation?"
    Yep - they'll spend several more days here at Bradley then have local meetings with witnesses before heading back to HQ, and spend several months considering possible causes of the disaster.

    Usually takes up to a year for a final NTSB report.

    Yesterday they gathered remaining pieces of the aircraft and took them to an enclosed area for closer inspection. Not exactly comforting for passengers to look out the windows of their departing/arriving flights, and see a burned out wreck of another airplane.
    Mac & Phyllis Take a Trip: http://nutmegflyer.com/trip-details-daily-updates/
    History: 1976 MGB, 1959 Triumph TR3A, 1960 Mercedes-Benz 190b, 1958 Rambler American.
    Current: 1953 MG TD27318.

  14. #34
    Great Pumpkin JPSmit's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    Quote Originally Posted by NutmegCT View Post
    Yep - they'll spend several more days here at Bradley then have local meetings with witnesses before heading back to HQ, and spend several months considering possible causes of the disaster.

    Usually takes up to a year for a final NTSB report.

    Yesterday they gathered remaining pieces of the aircraft and took them to an enclosed area for closer inspection. Not exactly comforting for passengers to look out the windows of their departing/arriving flights, and see a burned out wreck of another airplane.
    I guess my real point - imperfectly put is that of course the investigation is going to take some time - I would have expected a weeks long or even a months long investigation. days long just sounds odd.
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  15. #35
    Darth Vader
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    Re: one less fortress

    This just came up on YouTube.

    It is interesting that one of the reporters asked if the piston engines are not reliable because of the vibration.

    David


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vJ27Q5WSg
    TR3A TS75524L

  16. #36
    Darth Vader
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    Re: one less fortress

    Sorry thought I had it starting at the beginning.

    David
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  17. #37
    Obi Wan
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    Re: one less fortress

    If 2 engines on one side went out, that's a bad situation and there might not have been enough time to clean it up so that the big plane was controllable so close to the ground due to assymetrical thrust. Was it windy that day? There are often multiple reasons for a fatal crash. It seems like the pilot did not have sufficient control of the aircraft for some reason as he was very experienced in type. Strange since these planes often limped home half shot to pieces missing engines, etc. during their time of service. Friend of mine flew in one from Rochester NY to Cleveland in a bomb turret. He was terrified as the plane landed and he saw the ground rushing up at him. I've flown Warriors and Archers in and out of Bradley several times. If you follow the rules, it's one of the easier large airports for a small plane. Tragic loss for all concerned.

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  19. #38
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    Re: one less fortress

    When you read about forts limping home though one of the things usually mentioned is the crew throwing out everything not bolted down to decrease weight. With passenger seats presumed bolted in place and 13 people aboard combined with low altitude, maybe they were suddenly overweight for the power produced. Would explain coming in short and hitting the approach lighting.

  20. #39
    Darth Vader
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    Re: one less fortress

    Also the pilot of the limping aircraft would give the crew time to bail out before attempting to land. Of those that made it all shot up many probable did mot make it.

    David.
    TR3A TS75524L

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    Great Pumpkin DrEntropy's Avatar
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    Re: one less fortress

    The B-17 incident was mentioned in Air Force Magazine with few details. Just read in today's edition there was an F-16 auger in in southern Germany this morning. Training exercise. Pilot punched out, minor injuries reported. Went down in a "rural area" no ground injuries.
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