• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

Towards better brake performance....

Michael Oritt

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
Whether due to aging of the driver or brake materials--or both--it appears that lately I must exert a lot of pedal pressure to get what seems like less braking response. I know this is a very subjective statement and I have no way of quantifying the braking but I have been driving my car for 20 years and am sure that it just isn't stopping the way it used to.

Here is some background information:

1. I just, as in last week, replaced the brake hoses front and rear with a set of braided stainless hoses obtained from Old Phartz. I used him as opposed to Moss or other suppliers because I have BT7 front discs and stock 100 rears which take a different rear hose than the 6-cylinder cars, and he was willing to "Mix and Match" the later front hoses and original rear hose, whereas Moss only wanted to sell me two kits. It took a bit longer to obtain them than originally promised but what came in was great--actually about 3/4" more in length which made installation a bit easier.

2. I also just--last week--rebuilt the master cylinder and installed new rear wheel cylinders, and in the process flushed the hydraulic system entirely and refilled with Wilwood 570 high-temp Dot 4 fluid. The system is positively bled and the pedal is nice and hard and where it should be with just a bit of free movement.

3. The front pads and rear shoes have been replaced within the last twelve months and probably have less than 3K miles on them. Nevertheless the rotors seem to have a "glazed" appearance and the rear shoes have definitely been exposed to some slight leakage of diff oil, though not enough to saturate them.
Shoes and drums were cleaned following cylinder replacement.

4. I have a restrictor valve on the line to the rear brakes which, when turned down all the way, reduces fluid flow to approximately 60% of wide open. I have the valve turned all the way to reduced-flow in order to maximize fluid delivery/pressure to the front brakes as they do most of the work. There is a definite falling off in brake performance as the valve is opened.

5. The rear brakes are properly adjusted and the parking brake is functional when engaged.

6. I can, with extreme pedal pressure, lock the front brakes with little or no side-to-side pulling.

7. Tires are Michelin XAS with plenty of tread and 30 psi all around.

I just lost my lease to a warehouse space I have been renting and must clear out in a few weeks, so for that and other reasons I am not able to undertake any big project such as putting in a servo or replacing the front rotors with some racing stuff or rear brakes with discs, etc. However I am able to put on new front pads and rear shoes, and perhaps have the front rotors turned if need be. So I guess what I am looking for is some recommendations on what materials I might use to give good braking with reasonable pedal effort. I do my racing on a track in my other cars and am not looking to equip the Healey with rock hard pads/shoes. I merely want to improve the car's braking so I do not have to stand on the pedal to get the car to stop.
 

steveg

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
Michael,
You might consider new rotors ($26 ea) and the Moss ceramic pads ($38/set). IMO these and a little more adjustment of the proportioning valve will get you a better pedal effort.

A friend just installed the ceramics on his newly restored BN2 and is very happy with the pedal effort and lack of squealing.
 

HealeyRick

Yoda
Silver
Country flag
Offline
Mike,

I hesitate to suggest this as you are probably familiar with this from racing, but did you bed in your brakes? https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=6446_6443 I'm surprised what a difference it made on my car after putting the Toyota front calipers on. Not easy to find a place on the street around here where you can do ten 60-0 stops in a row without getting rear-ended.
 

red57

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Online
I don't know what bore master cylinder you have but you might try a smaller bore master. Will result in more hydraulic pressure in the calipers/wheel cylinders for the same pedal pressure, downside is more pedal travel too.
Pegasus has a pretty good selection if you are still using Girlings.

Are the 100 rear cylinders a different size than the 3000? If they are the same size, I don't understand why you have a proportioning valve because what you describe is basically a stock 6 cylinder set up and they didn't have proportioning valves stock. I never had one until I went to rear discs.

Other than cylinder size, you might call Porterfield and see what they suggest - they have a street version of the R4 carbon kevlar and it is a sweet pad material IMO (and they can line a set of shoes with it too).

Dave
 

Bob Claffie

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
I once wanted to increase my braking for cheap money. I put in the absolutely softest pads I could find ( a NAPA pad for about $10.00) and ended up with a sweet pedal at the expense of significantly additional wear. This was on a Spitfire but similar front disc rear drum set-up.
 
OP
Michael Oritt

Michael Oritt

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
Thanks all for the input and I will probably pursue Steve's suggestion: "You might consider new rotors ($26 ea) and the Moss ceramic pads ($38/set)."
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
FWIW, I bought a pair of rotors on sale from Moss a few years ago; they were Brembo (at least, they came in a 'Brembo' box). I was pleased.
 

RDKeysor

Jedi Trainee
Bronze
Country flag
Offline
It was 40 years between Healey ownerships for me, and when I test drove a couple of Healeys before buying my '60 BN7 a number of years I felt I wasn't getting sufficient braking. My daily driver has four-pot Brembos though marked Porsche, so I was used to good braking. After purchasing my car, I bought the brake servo kit sold by Victoria British and installed it. Unfortunately, I also installed the later larger diameter master cylinder that produced an excessively firm pedal. Someone on the Forum, likely Steve G, promptly told me that I should use the standard master cylinder. I did that and have a very nice pedal, albeit I had also upgraded the flexible brake lines front and rear, the rear brakes entirely except for the drums and the front brake cylinders in the process. Putting a servo on a Series 1 car that apparently never came fitted with servos was no picnic, however.
 

steveg

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
Just spoke to David Nock who's done lots of conversions of 100s. Points:
--smaller MC not available for 100 - he always uses the stock MC - says they work fine
--Not necessary to swap out rear wheel cylinders - says the discs work fine even with the early BN1 larger rear wheel cylinders
--Excessive pedal pressure is due to something other than the size of the MC

Queried my friend with the 100 - he replied the pedal pressure with the ceramic pads was no different from previous pads, but he had never had a pedal pressure problem - only loud squealing, which the ceramics permanently banished.
 
OP
Michael Oritt

Michael Oritt

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
I ordered new front rotors and semi-metallic pads and rear shoes from MM today. Unfortunately I will not be able to install till next week but will report back when done.
Given that everything worked very well for many years with present/original) master and rear wheel cylinder sizes I don't see why I would need to make any changes there.
Thanks all for the input and suggestions.
 

RDKeysor

Jedi Trainee
Bronze
Country flag
Offline
No, it didn't have the mounting bracket installed. The correct mounting angle is very much stressed in the servo instructions, and I eventually used a couple of washers to shim mine to where i thought it needed to be. I don't know at what point Healey began offering the cars with the servo installed.
 

Rob Glasgow

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
I too am not satisfied with the braking of my BT7. I also must add that I am very gentle on brakes, slowing and using the brakes gently in normal driving. On all the cars I've owned, the brake pads last 100,000 plus. Although I've driven the Healey for 56 years and had not given much thought to the system, I don't think I've ever been able to lock the front brakes in a hard stop. The rears will lock but not the fronts. I've rebuilt all the components in the past several years, but I still have the orinial front rotors. Since there is no pulsing when applying the brakes, I assumed they were fine.
But after reading the above comments about replacing the rotors, I'm considering that as a next step. Has anyone experienced a stopping improvement by just changing the rotors?
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
Gold
Country flag
Offline
... Has anyone experienced a stopping improvement by just changing the rotors?

Not that I can tell (but I usually change pads when I change rotors). I have noticed improvements, for example my favorite local parts house guy--who sadly drove his Harley off the 280/101 overpass in San Jose--recommended some Ferrodo pads which had significantly more stopping power than the Bendix organics I was running.

FWIW, drilled, slotted, vented rotors are overkill on a street Healey (IMO; and I've heard the drilled ones have a tendency to crack). The last rotors I got from Moss on sale were Brembo brand, which is a quality name.
 

HealeyRick

Yoda
Silver
Country flag
Offline
I suspect the ability for the rear brakes to lock up has more to do with weight transfer removing the weight from the rear tires rather than the efficacy of the rear brakes. Chris Dimmock asked on the team net forum recently if anyone had ever replaced their rear brake shoes because they had worn out and very few had. That would lead to the conclusion that the front brakes in a Healey are doing the most of the work Probably the easiest way to increase braking performance without going to the expense of changing to larger calipers and bigger rotors is carefully picking replacement brake pads designed fur street use. Stay away from race pads, they require extra heat to work effectively and street stopping distances will suffer.
 

John Turney

Yoda
Silver
Country flag
Offline
One thing to keep in mind if you can no longer lock the brakes: If you fit stickier tires than the old Road Speed tires, it requires more braking to overcome the increased tire grip.
 

Rob Glasgow

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
John, good point but I have 13 year old 165/80 Kumos so they're beyond the sticky phase. Santa's says he bring me some new wheels and tires. I can't wait.
 

Rob Glasgow

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
Bob, what model Healey do you have? I haven't been able to locate Ferodo pads to fit my BT7. Only found ones that fit the BJ8. Same situation with EBC Green Stuff pads.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
S TR2/3/3A rubber seal go towards the inside of the trunk Triumph 3
B Clutch disc - which side goes towards flywheel? Austin Healey 8
healeyboz Progress towards Friday's deadline Spridgets 19
healeyboz Looking towards the end Spridgets 2
drooartz First step towards Triumphhood British Motorbikes 6
K TR2/3/3A TR3 front air vents mounted under the grill...seen on race cars for better air flow to radiator. Triumph 1
TR6Canuck TR6 Wire Wheels: MWS/Dunlop vs Dayton - which is better? Triumph 5
John Turney Need a Better Demister? Austin Healey 5
S TR2/3/3A understanding the float and needle set up better Triumph 6
2wrench TR6 Help with points and condenser on '74 TR6 -- or better, choices to get rid of 'em. Triumph 25
C A better sound for a Miata? Other Cars 0
C runs better without air cleaners?? Austin Healey 19
B TR6 Seat Belt Brackets - Any Better Ideas? Triumph 1
Got_All_4 General Tech Different style synchros which is better Triumph 4
Pythias Back and Better Than Ever. Spridgets 7
JPSmit Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good Spridgets 15
S TR2/3/3A speedo and tach until the weather gets better Triumph 3
RedTR3 TR2/3/3A New is better? Triumph 14
B Everything runs better with this mod - all models!!! Spridgets 7
drambuie Getting a better deep throaty sound from my Stainless exhaust Austin Healey 5
JPSmit Ms Triss is better not best Spridgets 14
glemon Better Move Fast Spridgets 4
bugedd Better hurry if you want your master sleeved Spridgets 12
Got_All_4 Wedge Now that's better ! TR7 brakes Triumph 1
Mickey Richaud Ain't Nuttin' Better! MG 7
C OT - Are Alfa's better? Triumph 19
Nelson Better than cardboard? Spridgets 52
TR6BobNF Big Old Cat - Better Pics Jaguar 5
PC They couldn't do better than....? Other Cars 25
BugeyeNJ58 Need a Better Muffler for 59 Bugeye Spridgets 5
T TR4/4A Which TR4a is better - IRS or solid axle? Triumph 30
Gundy heeding my better's advice Spridgets 162
MCNX_BFF Triumphest 2010 pix --Better late than never? Triumph 4
J TR4/4A Better TR4 Valve Cover Replacement? Triumph 8
DNK Better Tail Spotted 4
M Better head gasket for a 1500 Spridgets 26
M Better carb heat shields to deal with vapor lock? Spridgets 18
I Bugeye-better to have negative or positive ground? Spridgets 17
UmmYeahOk Which is better - Carb Related Triumph 2
JPSmit OT but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good Spridgets 9
billspohn Better Than Snow Tires MG 9
J Need a better fan Racing 0
Hap Waldrop Beer run pics, better late than never :] Spridgets 6
T Would this maybe be a better path to take? Restoration & Tools 15
M TR2/3/3A How do you get a TR3 to ride better? Triumph 19
jaegzie Which way would be better -- Body Work Spridgets 5
T 30 minutes of clean up and much better Triumph 19
Stick Car runs better with vacuum leak? Spridgets 4
healeynut My A90 Atlantic is better than your SP250 Other British Cars 10
T How can I get better fuel efficiency Jaguar 15

Similar threads

Top