Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39

Thread: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

Discussions of Triumph motor cars

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Central Mississippi
    Posts
    94
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    So after 1-1/2 years I'm finally ready to begin restoration of the body. Thanks to all of you (especially Randall and John) who have provided invaluable feedback as I rebuilt the engine, transmission, suspension, and gearbox. It's been a lot of fun, and I've really enjoyed the process. The engine runs great, by the way!

    Chassis-PT.jpg

    This is my first body restoration, so I would like to get some feedback on the proper steps and sequence. The tub is in one piece and has never been separated. If I remember correctly, the doors and other panels seemed to fit just fine prior to body removal from the frame about 15 years ago. I should also mention this car was originally purchased by my father in 1960, so the history is fairly well known.

    My initial evaluation of the tub indicates that the outer and inner sills will need to be replaced because they are rusted through at the B-post, with significant pitting at the A-post. Also, the lower couple of inches on the outer 1/4 panels and wheel arches are rusted through where they meet the end of the inner sill. The driver side bulkhead and floor pans do show significant surface rust in places, but overall seem very sturdy. I was not able to punch through anywhere on them, so I'm thinking there is probably good metal under the rust. Everything else seems in good shape with only surface rust, and a few minor things that need patching.

    I would appreciate any advice on the following draft plan for body tub restoration/inner sill replacement:


    1. Door restoration - originals are in good shape except for some surface rust on the bottom. Will blast, paint, and re-use.
    2. Secure body to frame with service manual recommended padding between body and frame.
    3. Install doors, then add/remove padding under front and back sill brackets until proper door gap is established, then remove doors.
    4. Secure the body front-to-back by mounting steel tubing from each A-post to B-post. Then join left and right tubing, also tying into the prop shaft tunnel. This should hold the body halves in the proper position for sill replacement.
    5. Remove outer sill by drilling out spot welds and cutting corner welds.
    6. Remove floor pan by drilling out spot welds and cutting corner welds (do I have to remove to replace inner sill?)
    7. Drill out spot welds connecting bulkhead end panel and inner sill, and also separate outer 1/4 panel and wheel arch from inner sill.
    8. Remove inner sill.
    9. Replace rusted out lower couple inches on outer 1/4 panel and wheel arch by welding in patch sheet metal.
    10. Insert new inner sill purchased from TRF.
    11. Clamp or tack weld inner sill to outer 1/4 panel and wheel arch, as well as bulkhead end panel.
    12. Refit door and verify gaps are still correct.
    13. Weld inner sill to outer 1/4 panel, wheel arch, and bulkhead end panel.
    14. Install floor pan and weld (re-use old pan if possible).
    15. Install outer sill and weld.
    16. Repeat steps 5-15 on other side of car.
    17. Other minor work (cage nuts, battery box, small holes, etc.).
    18. Blast tub and prime.


    Here are a few pictures to get a better idea of what's in front of me:

    Body1.jpg Body2.jpg Body3.jpg

    Body4.jpg Body5.jpg Body6.jpg

  2. #2
    Yoda
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    3,248
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    27
    Thanked in
    27 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Good looking tub; is that the original paint. The car looks like a 1958 in primrose yellow. The inner sills I have found come out of the car difficulty with a lot of work. I used everything from a wood chisel to drill bits to blunt nose rotary files--- each one had its own place and application. I would need to see more of the inner sill to make a firm opinion, but from what I can see in the photos, I would not replace yours.

    Sure the outside sills are shot and they comes off easily. I would start there with some chisels and drill bits and blunt nose rotary file to have a better look at the complete car. The part I like about the rotary file is that it will cut only the first layer of tin out of the way and about a to 3/8 around piece grinds away the spot weld to the point where a smack with a chisel or just a complete cut through and separation of the 2 pieces will happen.

    The inner sill is the main structural piece for the car and they are open in the back, so that section in the inner wheel well could look worse than it is. in addition The A and B post both weld to inner sill which is the door opening and also plus down along the inner kick panel.

    your floor is not IMHO going to come out useable, but might be usable, maybe. I once took some 3/16 plate steel made a pattern and drop that over the whole floor in one piece using 2 of the outrigger bolt holes and the back body mounting holes with a holes cut for the jack access.

    Again I would rip those outer sills off for a better look and do some home sand blasting to get an idea of what you have. Do not let someone else sand blast the car; they will trash it. On the top cowl, I usually use paint remover first then sand blast with about 115psi and very fine sand. If you are not used to sand blasting, practice on like the trunk floor or something. Plus that area under the gas tank is usally thin.

    But again the tub looks good. please keep posting

  3. #3
    Jedi Knight
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    redding,ca
    Posts
    1,010
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6
    Thanked in
    6 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    One thing that is not apparent at your stage is that if you remove the inner sill, the rear weld point to the B post is behind the sheet metal between the door and rear fender. I had to cut an access hole in the dog leg piece to weld the sill back in.
    Charley
    1962 TR4
    1963 TR4
    1959 TR3A A work in progress.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Central Mississippi
    Posts
    94
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    The paint is original. I believe my father said it was called "Pale Yellow", but I think it's the same as Primrose. Maybe the name changed in 1959, but I'm not sure. For some reason the floor pans are a much brighter yellow. Not sure where that paint came from, but it's original.

    I will go ahead and remove the outer sills and take some pictures to provide a clearer image of what I've got.

    Joel

  5. #5
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Macon Georgia
    Posts
    2,573
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    35
    Thanked in
    33 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    For home sand blasting you will need a good compressor. I nearly burnt up my old Sears 30 gallon one blasting the rear wing. The tank was so got that I could not touch it.Hot compressors add a lot of moisture which is bad for sand blasting. I bought an Ingersoll Rand 5 HP 230v compressor. It will cut off from time to time while sand blasting.
    I ended up using Shark Bite medium. A crushed glass material that is a little less aggressive as the black medium that Northern tool sell. Also it is cleaner on the operator.
    I modified the Dead Mans handle on the blast head by removing it and replacing it with a ball valve. Then when the nozzle gets blocked you can shut off the ball valve and remove the nozzle.

    A lot of fun.

    David
    TR3A TS75524L

  6. #6
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Macon Georgia
    Posts
    2,573
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    35
    Thanked in
    33 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    You will need he compressor if you plan to paint it your self.

    David
    TR3A TS75524L

  7. #7
    Yoda CJD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Arlington, TX, USA
    Posts
    5,276
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    26
    Thanked in
    26 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Surprisingly nice body! I’m with Steve...take the outer sills off before making a decision on the inner sills.

    The floors should not have to come out to remove the sills, however, you will have to lift the body to work both the upper and lower sides. This means you will have to unmount the body to remove the inner sills, and remount to install the new inners. This is assuming you have to change the inners. You will save untold work on the floor and “B” post if you can save the inner sills.

    Like David says, the very first step should be to remove rust by whatever method you plan to use...sand blast, soda blast, wire wheel, etc.

    I look forward to following along!
    John

    1955 TR2

  8. #8
    Yoda
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    3,248
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    27
    Thanked in
    27 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    I think you will find you can save the floors and the inner sills which will make the job a ton easier, and it is still going to be a challenge. How is the trunk floor? It looks like much of the brown in the photos is dried glue at least on the outer wheel wells arcs. Do not throw anything away even if it looks unimportant. The fuel lines changed somewhere around your cars production, some had shut off valves and some did not. Either way, save all the lines and little clips that hold everything in place and take pictures of those places where clips are use. Saving the pieces will give you a template if you do replace them. The little clips for the fuel line back section are not available and difficult to fabricate and they could be still on the tub.


    Around here I go to the brick mason contractor stores and buy sand. The sand is usually in a hundred pound bags sometimes 50 today. I believe they call it 70 grit or weight and it is while silica. I put down some blue tarps and get about 3 reuses with the sand until it turns to dust. In tight spots or nice places like the front cowling, I soften the paint up with paint remover sometimes because you do not want to warp stuff that is nice with too much air pressure, but that stuff is nasty. The places that I do use paint remover I scrape the paint off and throw that into a different bucket because paint remover even when dried will reactivate with moister. Plus if I use paint remover, I use some lacquer thinner in an old can with a paint brush and paint it on to get that crap out of there then blast it with sand again.

    nice tub

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to sp53 For This Useful Post:

    CJD (09-03-2019)

  10. #9
    Jedi Hopeful
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    122
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    I bought a set of the Kilmartin outter sills. I have them set aside for when I start putting my car back together. You can do a search for KAS-Kilmartin and it will bring up my post with price I payed shipping cost delivery time and also pictures with the door sitting on the sill. Very nice people to deal with. Easier to call and talk, a little slow with email. Very good quality parts. To my knowledge the only company making the outter sill with the curve to match the door.
    Frank
    1960 TR3A TS61324
    rust bucket, work in progress, future road warrior

  11. #10
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Macon Georgia
    Posts
    2,573
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    35
    Thanked in
    33 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Even though it is called sand blasting I have read/heard that sand is not good as it has a high silica content and breathing that in is not good. A good mask may help with the dust. There will be plenty of dust.
    This is what I used. Got it on sale for about $6.00 a bag at Northern tool.

    David

    sand blast glass.jpg
    TR3A TS75524L

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to DavidApp For This Useful Post:

    CJD (09-03-2019)

  13. #11
    Yoda CJD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Arlington, TX, USA
    Posts
    5,276
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    26
    Thanked in
    26 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Thanks, Steve and David. I have been using the black diamond from Northern Hydraulic...but the last batch I bought is re-bagged and clearly labelled as "coal slag". Now I am worried I have permanent mercury poisoning from using that junk!! Glad to know there are other easy sources.
    John

    1955 TR2

  14. #12
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Macon Georgia
    Posts
    2,573
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    35
    Thanked in
    33 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Hello John.

    Got another project on the go?

    I found that the black diamond had a lot of larger pieces that block the nozzle. The Shark bite appeared to be a more consistent size.

    David
    TR3A TS75524L

  15. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Central Mississippi
    Posts
    94
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    I can tell you guys have a lot of experience at this because you are providing answers to questions I have yet to ask! Thanks for all the advice!

    I removed the outer sills on both sides, and to my untrained eye they don't look too good. The lower rear 4-6 inches appear to be rusted out, and there is heavy rust and significant pitting on the front driver side. Is it feasible to patch the sills where they are rusted out without removing from the tub? It looks like the rear 1/4 panel and wheel arch would interfere. From what I've seen so far, I think I need to either repair or replace. I attached some pictures below. Please let me know your thoughts.

    Driver Side:
    Sill_Driver_1.jpg Sill_Driver_2.jpg Sill_Driver_3.jpg Sill_Driver_4.jpg Sill_Driver_5.jpg

    Passenger Side:
    Sill_Passenger_1.jpg Sill_Passenger_2.jpg Sill_Passenger_3.jpg Sill_Passenger_4.jpg

  16. #14
    Yoda CJD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Arlington, TX, USA
    Posts
    5,276
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    26
    Thanked in
    26 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Yeah...I think I would go for new inner sills. Since they don’t show when assembled, the pitting is not a problem, but the rust through is. I think you are about at the point that it will be as much work to patch as to replace...and replacing will give a much better result in the end.

    The floors are only attached along the upper seam with spot welds. Some of the quarter panel has to peel up to break the “B” post welds to the sill. Last there is the “A” post, but it is a bit easier to break out. If the floor is salvageable, you can do all this with it installed, but pulled inward. If not salvageable, then working on the sill without the floor gives better access.
    John

    1955 TR2

  17. #15
    Yoda
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    3,248
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    27
    Thanked in
    27 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    The last picture looks good, but the other ones paint a different picture. I would replace also; do one side at a time. I think what work the best for me was a “saws all” and a die grinder on the A post with a fine metal blade on the saws all-- you can whittle stuff out of the way and grind the excess off later. I cut a chunk of the inner sill free and left the A post weld alone for a while. Nice clean job getting the outer sill out! What did you use? I think you have this under control as much as anyone.

    steve

  18. #16
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Macon Georgia
    Posts
    2,573
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    35
    Thanked in
    33 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    I also found a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to be very useful in some areas.

    David
    TR3A TS75524L

  19. #17
    Obi Wan M_Pied_Lourd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newmarket, Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    2,389
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    I went with the patch approach initially on my 60 TR3A restoration but in the end decided to do it properly and installed new sills. No regrets.

    Cheers
    Tush
    81 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 81 Triumph TR8
    73 Triumph TR6 CF4874UO, 68 Triumph TR250 CD5228LO
    62 Triumph TR4 CT6716LO, 60 Triumph TR3A TS69891LO
    60 Triumph TR3A TS64870LO, 59 Triumph TR3A TS44836LO

  20. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Central Mississippi
    Posts
    94
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    The sill came off pretty clean using a drill, dremel, and screwdriver. I drilled all the spot welds, dremeled the corners, and then pried between the inner and outer sills using a screwdriver to pop what was remaining of the spot welds. Took about an hour each side.

  21. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Central Mississippi
    Posts
    94
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Well alright, sill replacement it is! I do plan on trying to save the floor pans, so I will attempt to leave them in place without damaging. I would certainly appreciate it if you guys would take a quick look over the process I've laid out below and let me know if it's feasible. I'm sure I'm missing something.


    1. Secure tub to frame with proper mounting pads such that the door gaps are good (as if I were doing no major body repair).
    2. Attach bracing from A-post to B-post and cross-car for structural support and to hold everything in position.
    3. Remove tub from frame.
    4. Separate floor pan from inner sill by only drilling out connecting spot welds.
    5. Separate inner sill from A-post, B-post by drilling/cutting welds.
    6. Remove inner sill.
    7. Patch rusted out sheet metal on lower 1/4 panel and wheel arch.
    8. Rest tub on frame without new sill.
    9. Insert new sill into position on the frame and tack weld to A-post and B-post.
    10. Install door and verify gaps. If necessary, adjust A-post, B-post until gaps are good.
    11. Finish welding.


    Thanks,
    Joel

  22. #20
    Darth Vader
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Macon Georgia
    Posts
    2,573
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    35
    Thanked in
    33 Posts

    Re: Body Restoration - Inner Sill Replacement

    Looks like a sound process. More organized than my work flow but I started with a half completed car with built in issues.

    When I lifted the body I may have gone overboard but I attached a lifting bar to the bonnet mounting bolt holes in the front. A bar between the inner wheel arches in the rear and welded a brace between them. Then attached chains to a spreader on my engine hoist.
    Lifting body.jpg

    You may want to leave the 1/4 Panel open so you can weld the "B" post.

    David
    TR3A TS75524L

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •