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Non-Healey Cruising Rear Possible?

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

What alternative can we envision and CREATE for those of us that have the original OD and rear ration but want a less expensive alternative to the scarce non-OD rear? Also, what ratio would allow easy cruising at 75-MPH on interstates when in OD and at easy RPMs?

I am aware that a Healey-supplied alternative does not exist but, since most Healey parts have been secured from venters supplying them to many other manufacturers, was wondering if a good replacement could be found from a cross-reference? Also, could a US pumpkin or gear-set be fitted in our housing?

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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steveg

Yoda
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How much does it cost to fit a Ford 9" rear axle to a Healey? It may have to be narrowed. No idea how much this would cost but do know some nasty boys have it.

Assuming if there were, say, a Jag ring & pinion that would fit, we would already know about it. Also it would be even more expensive than the current 3.54s because the car it fits is driven by people who have more money than Healey owners.

Even adding $100 for shipping, this is still a terrific deal, compared to $1049+ship from Moss. You might save on shipping if you bought it from Healey Surgeons, who import from AHSpares in bulk:
screenshot.1725.jpg
 

red57

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Not something I have researched but here is a link to a Jeg's page on Ford 9" rears that outlines some choices used in hot rods - https://www.jegs.com/s/tech-articles/9-inch-ford-rear-axles.html&title=9+Inch+Ford+Rear+Axles

Have no idea how much the conversions (including shortening axles if necessary) and modifications would cost by the time you find an appropriate axle and have the required modifications done and then you have a "one-off" whenever you need repairs or parts. The ease of finding parts for the stock set-up has it's own appeal sometimes.

I can't believe it would be cheaper since you can get the 3.54 gears from DW for about $750 and figure maybe $3-400 to have someone install the gears in your pumpkin so it should be ready to install yourself for around $1200?

Look forward to what you find.

Dave

PS, Steve beat me to it but we are saying nearly the same thing
 
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OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Steve/Dave,

Thank you for your reply.

I believe most would like a pumpkin that would fit in the original rear housing but I would expect that V8 installations would require a cut-down of a 9" and found a good, low cost, way of doing it. Although the 3.51 is a rear gearing that I would appreciate, since many of the Healey's main components are shared with, or acquired from, other English Car models and manufacturers, the rear cluster would be the same. However, much of the sharing was never recorded and, unless you know, there is little to help you find out.

A friend is looking for something closer to a 3.08 to support cruising with his 5-speed BJ8 and the 9" approach would provide an almost unlimited selection to him. I would prefer keeping the original housing but would also like access outside the closed AH vendor provisions for a broader available selection.

I was never interested in replacing my original OD rear ration and over the years preferred to stay away of major interstates. However, yesterday when driving to a NJ British Show, I had to take a major highway for practicality and time constraints. I found driving 70-MPH to be very tiring...especially when intimidated by fast-moving very large trucks behind and along side or being out-accelerated at cruising speed by the meekest of econocars.

Thanks again,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 

red57

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Ray, I tried a 3.90 but went right back to a 4.10 because I like the 'sporty' aspect of having lower gears (gears are torque multipliers, so better acceleration). If well balanced, our engines will run forever in the 3-4000 rpm range. So no harm to the motor.

I guess it depends on what any individual wants a Healey for... I like canyon carving and IMHO a 3.08 with a stock Healey motor would be a dog. The 3.08 in a Nastyboy with 3-400 horses would make more sense to me.

I prefer 2 lane country roads but I can cruise at 70 all day and, aside from higher frequency vibrations, for me it is no more tiring than it was with a 3.90.

and being out-accelerated at cruising speed by the meekest of econocars.
You will be even more "out-accelerated" with a taller rear gearing (torque multiplying again).

YMMV,
Dave
 

Jack T

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I don't have a lot of time behind the wheel since I swapped out my 3.91 to 3.55, but I've driven it enough to feel that the 3.55 is perfectly suited to a stock motor. It gives you a wider range in every gear and I'm not tempted to reach for the OD as often. It's still possible to pull away from a stop on level ground in 2nd without slipping the clutch. Frankly I had expected a more dramatic change, but am very happy with the end result.
 

steveg

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I have the 3.54 in combo with the Toyota Supra W58 (same as 28% OD) and the DWR 8 278* cam. 3000 rpm is around 79mph. The car has plenty of torque for this setup. IMO 3.08 would be too much even on the smallest hills. Can see where a 3.3 could work with the stock OD if one stayed with the torquiest cam.

IMO the stock OD is superior to the 5-speed for hilly driving in the respect that 3rd OD "splits the difference" between 3rd and 4th, whereas you don't have that option with the 5-speed.
 

Patrick67BJ8

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Not something I have researched but here is a link to a Jeg's page on Ford 9" rears that outlines some choices used in hot rods - https://www.jegs.com/s/tech-articles/9-inch-ford-rear-axles.html&title=9+Inch+Ford+Rear+Axles

Have no idea how much the conversions (including shortening axles if necessary) and modifications would cost by the time you find an appropriate axle and have the required modifications done and then you have a "one-off" whenever you need repairs or parts. The ease of finding parts for the stock set-up has it's own appeal sometimes.

I can't believe it would be cheaper since you can get the 3.54 gears from DW for about $750 and figure maybe $3-400 to have someone install the gears in your pumpkin so it should be ready to install yourself for around $1200?

Look forward to what you find.

Dave

PS, Steve beat me to it but we are saying nearly the same thing
Plus $300 to recalibrate the speedo.
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

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Hi All and thank you for your information and experiences.

Please don't misunderstand, for most of the 55-years I've owned my Healey, I have been happy with the 3.9 rear. As one that commonly shifts at 5K-rpm, I am not adverse to running the engine at speed. However, on today's highways (even some 2 lane roads), 55-mph seems an option. On most interstates in the east, 70-mph is the speed for the slow lane and tractor trailers going posted HW speed (of 65) seem to follow the limit but hate to be held up … especially by a small British Sports Car.

The 3.08 ratio was meant to illustrate the broad range of the 9" and not something I would want. I probably would want something closer to the 3.5 but choosing an available Healey rear gearing means giving up any chance for anything different. Well, since all parts incorporated in the Big Healey seem to have been used in other marques, why not the rear. And if so, are those marques using a different ratio that would fit in our pumpkins?

Back when the Healey was being designed and a parts list was being created, I would expect the selected components were not uniquely created for Healey production. If my expectations are true, how can we find out what other ratios were created that would fit in the Healey's pumpkin? How could we find out what other car manufacturers (i.e. Sunbeam, etc.) used the same pumpkin and what gearing did they provide in different models?

Although I have low expectations that we can get this cross reference, the 9" could be an alternative in providing a broad number of ratios with modern elements as well. Yes, NO 3.08 but what about …..

Again, thank you for your information and thoughts as all I know I have learned from many of you.

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 

vette

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Hi All and thank you for your information and experiences.

Well, since all parts incorporated in the Big Healey seem to have been used in other marques, why not the rear. And if so, are those marques using a different ratio that would fit in our pumpkins?

Back when the Healey was being designed and a parts list was being created, I would expect the selected components were not uniquely created for Healey production. If my expectations are true, how can we find out what other ratios were created that would fit in the Healey's pumpkin? How could we find out what other car manufacturers (i.e. Sunbeam, etc.) used the same pumpkin and what gearing did they provide in different models?
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Ray, I appreciate your query but I fear there were very few options. From my reading I am of the opinion that many manufacturers in England and on the Continent used ratios of 3:90.1 and up numerically because most also used small displacement engines. I also believe that the rear end in our Healeys was/is an original Austin component that they manufactured in its entirety. Although it may have truly originated from another manufacturer which they had bought up in the many mergers of the time, such as Morris.
 

steveg

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Ray, I appreciate your query but I fear there were very few options. From my reading I am of the opinion that many manufacturers in England and on the Continent used ratios of 3:90.1 and up numerically because most also used small displacement engines. I also believe that the rear end in our Healeys was/is an original Austin component that they manufactured in its entirety. Although it may have truly originated from another manufacturer which they had bought up in the many mergers of the time, such as Morris.

"MOWOG" - IIRC something to do with Morris
 

gonzo

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Changed over to 3.54 rear ratio last year and retained the original OD. transmission. I do enjoy the difference. Engaging OD around 60 to 65mph, and not using it as often at lower speeds. Unmodified speedo is pessimistically 7 mph under confirmed by radar and satellite (Nuvi dashboard). For those interested, the suction-cup mount for the older Nuvi centers nicely on the speedo's glass without obscuring dial numbers and needle tip. Not that I like the look but the configuration is almost modern and good for longer trips.

The shop that did the work specializes in pretty much everything from hot rods to obscure euros and classics. They had just finished changing the rear end of an Austin Princess to a modified 9 in. Ford and were packing the car up for transport back to the UK. Shop owner said my conversion cost about the same as a modified 9 in. Ford installed; it's his recommended approach for the unobtainable. GONZO
 

RDKeysor

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I bought the AH Spares 3.5:1 ring and pinion a few years ago and had these gears installed in a pumpkin provided by a Healey club members at a gear shop in Clearwater, FL. We we were able to install the rebuilt pumpkin without trouble during a morning club tech session, and it is absolutely silent under speed. For me, the 3.5 provides a much nicer driving experience because of the rpm reduction that it produced. That was ion the neighborhood of 500 rpm, as I remember. I have a Toyota gear box, but I didn't get the rpm reduction Steve G got with his car with an identified Supra transmission. Mine was put in by a PO, and possibly came from a truck. Wonderful gear box with very close ratios. I haven't driven a Healey with the standard four-speed with OD since I owned one back in the 1960s, so I can't make a comparison.
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi All,

Thank you for your responses and thoughts.

Although this question has been pursued before, the conclusions drawn seems always to be as a result of the frustration in the lack of found information. Yes, many parts were created by independent-parts/car-manufactures and used in multiple makes and models. However, these parts were numbered per the car manufacture's designation with no found formal reference to the original manufacturer (if different from the car maker). As a result, there may be many shared components but, if not identified with the part name (i.e. Lucas, Smiths, etc.), there seem to be no way of knowing.

So, what makes me think there is a cross reference? When you go to a salvage yard today, cross references exist to allow the yard to capitalize on the broadest market for parts. When you consider that salvage yards were more plentiful and a common place to get discounted parts, I can't imagine that such a cross reference, official or otherwise, was not available back then to help these organizations capitalize on parts inventory.

Maybe too much choice is not the best thing as it exposes indecision. For those that have enough money and desire, there is always a way of satisfying the need with the official walled parts list. Is there a way to contact salvage yards in the UK and find a Healey enthusiast that can lend more insight on this possibility.

Just my thoughts,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 

HealeyRick

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The following cars used the same BMC "C" series engine as the Healey and I believe (but not positive) used the same 3.54 rear drive that will fit in the Healey pumpkin:


Even still, by the time you found one and had it shipped over and refurbished, you'd still be ahead financially buying a new DW ring and pinion and having it installed. Narrowing a Ford 9=inch is a good way to go if you are looking to handle over 350 horsepower and you can get them set up with disc brakes, but it won't be cheap nor plug and play.

I would think you wouldn't want to go any numerially lower than a 3.5 rear end ratio, otherwise you'll start to lose your ability to comfortably merge with highway traffic coming from an on-ramp or trying to beat Hondas and Accords from stoplight to stoplight,
 
OP
RAC68

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi Rick,

I must agree with all you have said and the a 3.54 ring and pinion is most likely what would be best. However, how did you come to know that that rear was in all the cars mentioned? Was it from experience or an informal acquisition of knowledge or from a cross indexed parts list? I expect I know the answer but I can hope.

Thanks Rick and all the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 

Michael Oritt

Yoda
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I agree with Rick and cannot see the necessity for nor the advantage to having a diff numerically lower than the 3.5. Aside from having to do a lot of unnecessary work you should consider the effect of putting a non-stock Ford unit into your Healey which one day will need to be sold.

I have a Toyota 5-speed coupled to a 3.5 R&P which gives 70 mph at 3K rpm's more or less. It's a happy combination and there is plenty of torque available at that speed so that I can make a pass without having to downshift to 4th, yet I do not feel that I am "pushing against a wall" as I did prior to the 3.5 diff when 70 mph translated into something a lot closer to 4K--a very busy engine speed to say the least
 
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