My background is pipelines. About 20 years back, I was on-site for a 48 inch line (c/w six inches of concrete coating; the Cat sidebooms were nose to tail and bouncing slightly with Cat 245 backhoes hovering with their buckets just above the counterweights in case.... If something failed, then the whole line of sidebooms flip over and people die, unless the sidebooms can keep them from flipping. Not fun, but good risk preventative). And I'm a 50 year old engineer, BS'ing with one of the operators (about 500 pounds, no teeth): "Yup, broke out in '48. 'figure them environmentalist types have gone overboard, but we sure did a lot of stupid f*ing things back then." Like changing engine oil by dumping the old stuff on the ground. Brightened my day: he couldn't agree with everything that was happening, but he'd sure bought into the environment as being important. Doug