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Boeing accidents

pdplot

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A plane flying by computer - what could go wrong? I say this - put the pilot back in the cockpit-not a systems manager. And now they want to have self-driving cars as well. You couldn't pay me enough to fly in one of those. If its not an Airbus, I'm not going. The fleet must be grounded until the fault is found and corrected. I feel for the 300 plus families killed by a computer malfunction.
 
D

Deleted member 8987

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you've got that backwards. Hairbuss has been fly by wire with computer direct control for what, 20 years? BIG issues, from Paris Air Show to Hair France in the Atlantic.

After Death Cruiser 10, Hairbuss is the last manufacturer I would ever fly on.
 

TR3driver

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All big planes are computer controlled these days, as are most cars and trucks.

From what I've read, the 737 Max 8 problem is almost certainly a combination of sensor failures, poor pilot education, and perhaps poor programming. Not a "computer failure" as such, the computer was doing exactly what it was programmed to do with the information it had.

The pilots certainly had the option of flying manually; in fact several American pilots did exactly that after the autopilot malfunctioned. Boggles my mind that any pilot would leave the autopilot enabled after it malfunctioned not once but several times in a row; but that is apparently what happened.

If the cruise control on your car started going full throttle for no apparent reason, would you keep using it???
 

DrEntropy

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I'll wait for the FAA analysis to learn what chain of events led to this tragedy. These things are almost always a series of smaller events, leading up to the catastrophe. So far we hear of uprated engines and inadequate pilot training, hinky autopilot behavior, etc. We'll see.
 

NutmegCT

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A friend is a retired AA pilot - 40 years experience from DC-6s through 737s and 747s.

He mentioned that there's often no *one single off switch* for the automated control systems. You can't just turn *off* the autopilot, as there may be one to seven different autopilot systems running at once. If there's a problem, you have to figure out which part of the system isn't working right.

And if "upgraded software" is introduced, there's not always clear written (and/or demonstrated) instruction on the change, even in simulator training. And simulator training isn't always required for the change.

And if there's a hardware problem discovered in October 2018, but changes are only required "within six months" ... you may have a big problem.

As he says ... "It's complicated".
 

waltesefalcon

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From what I've heard pilots have been complaining about the automated systems in the plane in question for awhile now. It seems that possibly Boeing put too much trust into one automated system that the pilot has no control over. The FAA investigation will hopefully shed some more light on the issue.
 

NutmegCT

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DNK

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This is all pretty funny
Randall is the only one with a clue
 

waltesefalcon

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"As he says ... "It's complicated"."

Is it too complicated to fly?
 

PAUL161

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To my understanding, those Ethiopian pilots only had approx 200 hrs in the 737s, I think here they require at least 1500 hrs. PJ
 

TR3driver

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To my understanding, those Ethiopian pilots only had approx 200 hrs in the 737s, I think here they require at least 1500 hrs. PJ

Not clear to me that it would have helped. This 737 (the "Max 8" version) is apparently different than all the others in this regard. (In particular, how to disable MCAS when it malfunctions, since the other 737s don't even have MCAS.) And the difference only shows up in case of what appears to be multiple sensor failures.

Yet Boeing has apparently insisted they are "the same", so retraining is not required to move from another 737 to the Max 8. To support that position, they left out the information on how to deal with MCAS from the "owner's manual".

I don't doubt there is more to the story; for example it seems like an awfully high rate of failure. MCAS smells to me like a band-aid they slapped over a design flaw while trying to conceal that the flaw existed. With the FAA being run by a former lobbyist, I'm also not real confident they will tell us the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

But hopefully, their counterparts in other countries will.
 

DNK

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I think what you are referring to was that the co pilot on had 200 hrs in flight total
Is what I heard
 

DNK

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Lets see 40,000+ flights
About 50 questions
that comes to .00125
That my friends is a small number
And that doesn't include the world wide fleet
 

NutmegCT

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"If the cruise control on your car started going full throttle for no apparent reason, would you keep using it??? "

Probably keep using it if you (1) didn't know that was the problem, and (2) you didn't know all the procedures to turn it off, and (3) you didn't get training in the system changes.


 

Popeye

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Let’s also not forget that the fatal accidents happened at low altitude - ie little time to react. Pilots are hours of boredom punctuated by seconds of panic (not literally, but you get the idea... very little goes big-time wrong.) Who knows how many incidents occurred at altitude where adequate time was had.

I am an aerospace engineer, but have no clue what specifically went wrong. Waiting for the full NSTB report.
 
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