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Thread: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

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  1. #21
    Luke Skywalker vette's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    In reference to differences in wiring between dual lights and single lights, I may be miss stating here because i am just thinking about this without checking a schematic, the significant difference between 100/6- early 3000 and the later 3000 (BJ8) is the later dual light set up does not have the turn/brake light relay on the inner left front fender. Also the later cars have some changes to the wiring behind the dash. Having said all of that, here are my thoughts about what the car might have or need. The turn/brake light relay is really only needed for the rear lights where by the one bulb is used for the brake light and then also the turnsignal. If the car has two lights on each side in the back, a separate brake light and also a separate turnsignal light, then a relay is not needed on the left front inner fender panel. So then there is none there and maybe never was. The front turnsignals would work without a relay because they don't serve a dual purpose of turn and brake. So if the car had a later BJ8 front Shroud and a single light front shroud was substituted I believe the only wiring change needed would be that at the front lights, the wires that were in a second lamp socket would then be terminated in only one light socket. I might be all wet on this, I didn't check any schematics.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Vette,

    You are correct. Each filament of the dual filament bulb on the left and right side front are either dedicated to the running light or directional. The later dual light Phase 2s differ from the single light (dual filament) wiring of the early Phase 2s up front is as you've stated, the running light is terminated in 1 lamp and the directional is terminated in the other.

    Ray(64BJ8P1)

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Coincidentally, the 48-page February issue of HEALEY MARQUE magazine, which was recently mailed, includes "ladder logic" wiring schematics for the six-cylinder big Healeys. (The January issue included the schematics for the BN1 and BN2, and the March issue will include them for the Sprites.)

    You, too, can receive the monthly magazine (11 times per year, with a beautiful calendar serving as the 12th issue), HEALEY MARQUE.

    Here's a look at the cover of the February issue with a detail of the original Gerry Coker drawing of an early version of the car that would become the Healey Hundred:

    HM 02.jpg

    [Click image to enlarge]
    Reid Trummel
    Editor, HEALEY MARQUE magazine

  4. #24
    Yoda HealeyRick's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    So my question about the wiring is this. What should Jeff look for to tell whether his wiring is from a single indicator car or a dual indicator car?

    And, BTW Reid, subscription to Healey Marque is worth it just for the articles on chimps driving Healeys.
    Rick

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    I'm not really sure you could tell if it was one harness or the other. The earlier one light cars have three wires going to each fixture while the two light cars have only two wires each. So if the shroud was changed from a two light to a one, the shop would only need to connect the hot wire that originally ran to the second fixture to the empty socket on the "new" three wire fixture. So now the single fixture will operate as it should, but the ground wire to the second fixture would not have any place to go. I can't guess what any given shop might do, but I'll venture a guess that the shop would probably just remove it. An owner of a two light car can confirm or correct my thinking, but I believe the ground wire to the second fixture comes from one of the four way connectors, so all the shop would have to do is pull the bullet out of the connector, and no one would be the wiser.
    Things I need:
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    Please PM me if you have one for sale.

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    It might be a good idea to check the rear shroud to see if that is original to the car.

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    Luke Skywalker vette's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    The early single lamp wiring harness had a relay as stated on the left front inner fender panel. If the car was originally a dual lamp car front and rear, Or I should say that if the car had a relay originally then the wiring harness in that area would now have splices there. Because the wiring would have to have been spliced around the original terminations on the relay. Another very empirical bit of evidence will be the wire circuit for the brake lights. If the car had a relay the wire for the brakes came from the brake light hydraulic switch down on the lower frame section on the right side frame near the front shock structure then it went to the relay location because it terminated at the top left terminal of the relay. This allowed the relay to control the brake lights.
    But if the car never had relay, the wire coming from the brake light switch went directly to the back brake lights. It stands to reason to me that if the car originally had a dual light front shroud it would be very easy in the electrical sense, to switch it to a single light front shroud. All that would be necessary would be to move the wires from the lamp that was eliminated to the one that was kept. Also, if I was doing it and I wanted to try to make this wiring change as unobtrusive as possible I would take the black ground wire that was on the lamp to be eliminated and terminate it with the black ground wire of the other lamp holder. Two black wires on the same terminal would be very unsuspecting.
    Now if you were switching the rear shroud from a dual lamp shroud to a single lamp shroud this story would be quite different. You would have to install a relay and change the brake wire, and also the trafficator wires from the signal flasher and relay.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Hi Vette , I hope all is going well in Pa. and you're ready for that ice storm that's coming . My healey was built in Nov. of 1964 and it has a single front park/turn lamp under the headlight . The rear also has only one park / turn lamp . I am sure this is original . I'm not worried about anything other than I am planning on ordering a complete wiring harness for this soon . Do you know where I could order the correct replacement harness ? I appreciate any help with this . Thanks
    BobbyR

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Hey Bobbyr, just out of curiosity, what color are your front lamp lenses?

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    Jedi Warrior BJ8Healeys's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrim View Post
    ......considering a model change to phase 2 and being near a new year.
    I'll bet a dollar to a dime that if they had a bin of amber lenses they would have
    used them up instead of throwing them out in order to go clear. Same goes for
    other parts in the "bin". Just my 2 cents.
    dancrim: per the BMC BJ7/BJ8 parts manual (AKD 3523), amber lenses were not used on BJ8s until the change to dual indicators under the headlamps (body 76138). So, there wouldn't have been a bin of leftover amber lenses to put on cars prior to body 76138. The late Phase 2 configuration required amber lenses, so if they had them why "use them up" on earlier cars? Unless you are the original owner of your car, there is no reason to assume the amber lenses are original. All it takes is a later amber lens and removing/reinstalling a couple screws and anybody could have an amber lens if he liked those better.
    The color of the lens used in production was in response to international vehicle regulations. Lights facing the rear have to be red for stop and amber for turns, for example. Amber lenses were not put on Italian dual-indicator cars up front because Italy required both to be clear. The small glass lenses were continued on cars for Germany up to body 75207.

    BMC did not observe "models" or "new years" in production.
    Steve Byers
    HBJ8L/36666
    BJ8 Registry
    Havelock, NC

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Hello BobbyR, I must first ask, does your car have the turnsignal/brake light relay on the left front inner fender panel. If your car only has the single light socket on each fender then it must have the relay on the inner fender. I just want to make sure. This will qualify what I will say. Also you have just one turn signal flasher indicator bulb, in the dash board just above the steering column. If so then your car is wired like the later 100/6s and the early 3000s including "most" BJ7s. I ordered my wiring harness almost 20 yrs ago, from a shop that was near Danville, Pa. I know he was a Moss distributor so it probably came from Moss. I will mention that I have bought parts from Healey Surgeons in Tocoma Park, Md. many times and have never been disappointed in what they sent me. Inan is the lady who will answer the phone at Healey Surgeons and she is quite knowledgeable. Don't try to second quess her as she knows all the big Healeys thru & thru.
    A couple words of caution about replacing a wiring harness in a Big Healey. Sometimes the colour coding on the wiring and the colour coding on the schematics don't match. I have found, (it might be just my circumstances of 20 yrs ago) that when I was looking at a particular circuit on the harness that it did not match the schematic in the shop manual for the early 3000 but it did match the colours for the 100/6. The circuits are the same up to the change to dual lighting BJ8s but the colour coding in the harness was changed somewhere along the line. Then I would notice that on another circuit of the harness it matched the early 3000 but not the 100/6. In the Bentley Shop Manual there are 3 different schematics for the 6 cylinder cars.
    One just labeled "Wiring Diagram", another labeled "Early Cars" and another labeled "Later Cars". The 1st two have a turnsignal/brake light relay for the single lamp cars and the last one is for the BJ8s with dual lamps. So my suggestion is to "ring out" and label every circuit before you install it on the car. If the schematic shows a yellow wire is at a given terminal and it should go to another stated terminal, use an ohm meter or test light to make sure that it does. If the colours changed make sure you label the ends of the wires. It may be a quality problem with the manufacture of the particular harness I bought. And we can all speculate about that but once in place and labeled it all works the same. Maybe quality is better today.
    So I can't suggest a "Good" choice just relating my experience. I bought a vinyl insulated harness. It hasn't fallen apart, dead shorted, or blown up the car yet so I am happy with it.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Jedi Trainee BOBBYR's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Good Morning Gents ,
    First to your question Vette . The left front fender does have a brake light/turn signal relay mounted on it . Now for the dash board . There are two separate turn indicators on the dash board , one for left turn and one for right turn . Another question was the front lights under each headlight had clear lenses with amber bulbs inside . My father was a real detail oriented guy by nature , so I'm sure this is the way he bought the car new . I'm really interested in any information you come up with on this part of the electric system . Thanks for your input ,
    BobbyR
    Last edited by BOBBYR; 01-20-2019 at 01:51 PM.

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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Bobby, from what I have seen, and I by no means have seen it all because I am just a hobbiest, but the two turn signal flasher indicator bulbs on your dash could be a stickler for getting an accurate harness. It seems to me that the 2 turn signal flasher indicator bulbs on the dash were on the later cars, mostly BJ8s with the newer style dashboard and center console. But most BJ8s had dual lamps on the fenders. The BJ7s that I know off only had one flasher indicator on the dash. But we do know that there were some early BJ8s that had just the single lamps on each fender which meant that they also would have the turnsignal/brake relay on the left front inner fender. In the Bentley Shop Manual there is a schematic that shows a vehicle with single lamps on the fenders, a relay on the inner left fender & 2 signal flasher indicator bulbs on the dash. It is labeled "early cars". But I relabeled it "Early 3000s". But again my '63 BJ7 does not fit this layout because mine only has 1 flasher indicator on the dash. So the question comes down to which harness should you order? I have not looked at the products from different vendors but here are some caveats that you need: You need a harness that has the layout for the relay on the inner fender, also one for single lamps on each fender, and one which has 2 flasher indicators on the dash. I remember from my search years ago that I had quite a time with this and I'll explain that a little later but, If you order a harness that has the 2 flasher indicators on the dash that will probably be for a later BJ8 and will not have provisions for the inner fender relay or the single lamps on each fender. If you order a harness for an early BJ7 it will have what you need for the fender relay and the single lamps on the fenders but will not have provision for 2 flasher indicators on the dash. I would call your car a transition car because it has these discrepancies in the wiring. But to me it is not a hard fix. Get the BJ7 harness with the relay and single lamps on fenders and modify it for the 2 flasher indicator bulbs on the dash. The schematic for the cars with a fender relay and 2 indicator lamps on the dash shows that the indicator lamps on the dash are connected to terminals 2 & 6 respectively on the fender relay. Very simple to do. The cars that have 2 lamps on the dash but NO RELAY have the dash indicators wired up to the connectors from the trafficator at the bottom of the steering column. Just pull them out from the connectors at the bottom of the steering column and connect them to 2 & 6 respectively of the relay. So I think your best bet is to get a harness for a BJ7 with single lamps on each fender. Good Luck.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

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    Jedi Trainee BOBBYR's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Hi Vette ,
    There is no doubt that this is a " early car " as you have stated . I appreciate all the information on this . That Bentley manual might be a pretty handy pub for me to have . Is there any way you could PM that schematic to me or just give more info on the manual itself so I can pick one up . Thanks for all your help ,
    BobbyR

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    Luke Skywalker vette's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    You really Must Have a good shop manual and I consider "The Complete Official Austin-Healey 100-six and 3000 1956-1968" by Robert Bentley to be the best I have come across. The Moss # is 212-820. Here is a link,
    https://mossmotors.com/austin-healey...ual-100-6-3000
    I believe that Bentley Publishing is at 1000 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, Ma. 02138, or phone 1-800-423-4595. But I'm sure you can get it thru Moss.
    About TV Shows-
    "...you really can't restore a car in 10 days. I don't want to watch a race where people have to restore it in a week. It's not going to drive, and those cars never work. In real life, it takes years to get it right. " Jay Leno.

  16. #36
    Jedi Trainee BOBBYR's Avatar
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    Re: 65 BJ8 Front Single Lamps

    Hey Vette , Thanks so much for the listing . That schematic you referenced I think is going to be the ticket for my electrical .
    BobbyR

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