Overheating BJ8

Where can I get a better radiator?

I assume you are having overheating issues? This topic was covered extensively recently on the autox mailing list. I've copy/pasted some responses here:

"Over heating at (some) speed can be caused by:
not enough coolant
sludge in engine and/or radiator
wrong or absent ducting around the radiator not directing enough air to the radiator
calcifying of radiator effectively blocking it internally
radiator externally dirty or damaged small slats preventing air flow through the radiator
wrong/faulty thermostat which does not block the radiator bypass when engine warm
lean mixture of the carbs, vacuum leak
wrong ignition timing worsened by sticking bob weights (lack of maintainance)
water pump not generating enough flow because of corrosion and/or cavitation of the vane and snail
blown head gasket
partially blocked exhaust

In traffic jams, on steep roads: insufficient flow from the radiator fan"

-- Kees Oudesluijs (professional Healey mechanic in the Netherlands)

Unless your top or bottom tanks are toast, recoring may be a better option:

"[FONT=&quot]With recoring that will appear as original, you have several options: Flat fin, four row which will fit with no modifications, Flat fin 5 row which requires the side supports to be slightly modified, or Flat fin, 6 row which requires the manufacture of a new lower header tank."

-- Gerald Rude


I got a new radiator from Moss when mine was damaged by one of their water pumps. I had to trailer my car home, so had my radiator repaired when I got home, but the Moss radiator, close but not identical to my original, appeared to be of good quality.
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How did you radiator get damaged by one of their water pumps?

Or get aluminum if You aren't a concours type.

FMcDonald:
All of the normal vendors sell radiators. Also, I believe Wizard Cooling was one of the first to make an aluminum rad for our cars and they run ~$500. Cheaper aluminum ones are available for your car on ebay. Or you can have the core replaced using the current radiator tanks that you probably own. But the context of Bob's post above is that a new or rebuilt radiator does not necessarily solve overheating issues in a BJ8. Could you tell us more about you reasons for your question? That would help you get the best advice possible.

SimsBJ8 said:

How did you radiator get damaged by one of their water pumps?

Click to expand...

I regaled the Forum with this story 3 years ago. Condensed version:

Installed new pump when I put a new timing cover seal in before annual long road trip in summer of '14. This pump was rebuilt by an expert in Canada; unfortunately, he was provided a defective seal and, after 2,000 miles the seal's rubber bellows split in Green River, WY. We got a motel room, and had Moss overnight a new pump and gasket. When I was installing the new pump, I noticed it had more end play than I liked but, what choice did I have? Installed it, but when I fired the engine the shaft separated, sending the fan into the radiator. Had Moss overnight another pump and a new radiator; no place to get mine repaired in Green River. When I ordered the second pump, I told the sales rep 'Have your warehouse people check the pump for end play before they ship it!' Well, the second pump arrived with a broken shaft! Had no choice but to trailer the car home from WY to San Jose, CA. Sent the original pump back to Canada, and he rebuilt the pump again, no charge. So far, over 10K miles on it with no problem. Except for a flat when I didn't have a spare, that was the only time my car stranded me in 130K miles.

Moss did make me half whole; all parts prices and shipping were refunded by Moss--'store refund,' but I used it to get a new Pilkington windshield--and they covered half of the trailer rental. Both pumps were County brand. Moss acknowledged major quality problems with County parts, which started after the original owner of the company 'dropped dead from a heart attack.' Original thread here:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf...ater-pump-sources&highlight=county+water+pump

Bob_Spidell said:

I regaled the Forum with this story 3 years ago. Condensed version:

Installed new pump when I put a new timing cover seal in before annual long road trip in summer of '14. This pump was rebuilt by an expert in Canada; unfortunately, he was provided a defective seal and, after 2,000 miles the seal's rubber bellows split in Green River, WY. We got a motel room, and had Moss overnight a new pump and gasket. When I was installing the new pump, I noticed it had more end play than I liked but, what choice did I have? Installed it, but when I fired the engine the shaft separated, sending the fan into the radiator. Had Moss overnight another pump and a new radiator; no place to get mine repaired in Green River. When I ordered the second pump, I told the sales rep 'Have your warehouse people check the pump for end play before they ship it!' Well, the second pump arrived with a broken shaft! Had no choice but to trailer the car home from WY to San Jose, CA. Sent the original pump back to Canada, and he rebuilt the pump again, no charge. So far, over 10K miles on it with no problem. Except for a flat when I didn't have a spare, that was the only time my car stranded me in 130K miles.

Both pumps were County brand. Moss did make me half whole; all parts prices and shipping were refunded by Moss--'store refund,' but I used it to get a new Pilkington windshield--and they covered half of the trailer rental. Moss acknowledged major quality problems with County parts, which started after the original owner of the company 'dropped dead from a heart attack.'

View attachment 49669

Click to expand...

That must be a brutal stretch of road for cooling systems! It's probably the long climb from SLC.

My brother had my TR4 for a couple of years, and in '82, was on the way from the SF Bay Area to school in Ft Collins, CO. The water pump quit either in Evanston or Rock Springs. Fortunately, That was one of the spare parts we had put a in a box in the trunk, along with a can of Permatex. I believe a gas station owner let him park under an awning to do the repair, and he used a thin piece of cardboard that he found in the trash to make a gasket. That repair got him through his first year at CSU, and back to CA where I traded him again for a Galaxie that proved to be bullet proof. No FedEX (or money!) back then.

My engine was totally rebuilt and the radiator was boiled out. Now it runs about 195 and climbs to 200. It goes up to 212 at traffic lights. I put in the 160 correct thermostat with the sleeve. I also installed the Moss ducts to the radiator. The only thing left is a better radiator I think.

Going back to simple for a moment, do you have confidence that the radiator cap is rated for the correct pressure, and is in good condition? 212 doesn't sound too bad while sitting in traffic, but I agree it would be better if it ran cooler. Does the car lose any coolant? Also, have you checked the engine/hoses/rad tank with an IR, or some other type of known-to-be-good thermometer? I've found the gauges in many cars to be off a bit, and I think that's why car manufacturers went to "ranges" instead of absolute numbers.

There was a recent thread that might be helpful:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf...owly-diagnose-why-my-Healey-overheats-at-idle

Good Luck.

Hi Donald,

If a radiator is your objective, I would select a 4 row copper re-core of your original performed at a local radiator shop. I have taken this approach an found it to be the most economical and efficient approach with the additional benefit of looking original when using the original tanks. Additionally, I would suggest the installation of a non-pressurized overflow tank which would require the replacement of the original radiator cap for a 1" drop recovery cap from NAPA (Balkamp 703-1411). Keep in mind that clean internal coolant channels are critical to having efficient heat transfer and the Big Healey has always had an issue with proper engine compartment air flow.

However, I would suggest you review the posts on a recent thread "Some observations/results to slowly diagnose why my Healey overheats at idle", as there are a number of reasonably simple things that can be done to help mitigate some of these issues.

Hope this helps,
Ray(64BJ8P1)

Jim 58 BN6 said:

That must be a brutal stretch of road for cooling systems! It's probably the long climb from SLC. ...

Click to expand...

We were coming from the north, heading for Flaming Gorge. IIRC, it was mostly flat. The rubber bellows in the pump seal was defective, and just happened to give up the ghost in Green River.

RAC68 said:

... I would select a 4 row copper re-core of your original performed at a local radiator shop. I have taken this approach an found it to be the most economical and efficient approach with the additional benefit of looking original when using the original tanks...

Click to expand...

Agree. I had my rad re-cored, but I think it was a 5-row core as it's a hair wider than the vertical brackets and it looks like it had to be trimmed to fit the brackets. About $300 IIRC. Here's some more from the email list:

"While aluminium radiators are very popular you should be aware that when you
compare the heat conductivity of the metal against copper it comes a very
poor second. Copper is are far more efficient at conducting heat than
aluminium.

So the fitting of an aluminium radiator to your car alone is unlikely to fix
the problem. It may look pretty under the bonnet but if that's all you do
the problem is unlikely to go away.

My guess is that there is sludge at the bottom of the radiator and in the
block. While the car may operate in the normal heat range during everyday
driving as soon as you extend it a little during hot weather it can't cope.
The more sludge there is, the less coolant there is and therefore the
ability of the radiator is decreased.

There are products out there that will eliminate that sludge.

Plus make sure that all the wind deflectors are fitted, water pump impeller
is not worm etc etc."

-- Patrick Quinn (Australia)

Mercedes used to recommend a "citric acid flush" of their cooling systems, to eat up some of the mineral deposits in the radiator. I have done this with moderate success on my older MB. There is a risk of damage to the radiator (if the acid eats too much), but if your have already budgeted for a new radiator, you could try a citric acid flush first to see if it works in your case. You circulate a non sudsing cleaner through the system first to get rid of any oily buildup. Then water with citric acid powder is dissolved and circulated through the engine. And then you rinse and rinse and rinse again. It is a fairly aggressive approach to cleaning the cooling system, but works fine in most cases. I have always chosen to avoid letting the citric acid into the heater core of my cars, because their replacement is a huge hassle. Anyway, perhaps you could read up on citric acid radiator flushes and give one a try.

fmcdonald said:

My engine was totally rebuilt and the radiator was boiled out. Now it runs about 195 and climbs to 200. It goes up to 212 at traffic lights. I put in the 160 correct thermostat with the sleeve. I also installed the Moss ducts to the radiator. The only thing left is a better radiator I think.

Click to expand...

Hi Fred, my engine was also just rebuilt and the radiator was rebuilt with a 4 row core. We run in the same weather since we are in the same neighborhood--my car runs at 160 and rises to 190 when sitting in traffic. As suggested, I would also take a reading with a known good thermometer to make sure the one in the car is still correct.

Hi Hugh,
I'm thinking of the Moss radiator as my original radiator is probably is a 2 row core. Do you know someone around here who can rebuild itto a 4 row core?
Thanks

CLEAH-
May I ask what temperature of thermostat do you use? A 160F thermostat will (ideally) not open until 160 F, which means one's engine temp will always be higher than 160 under load. If you consistently run at 160, it suggests that you must have a thermostat which opens at below 160. Or maybe your engine temperature gauge is off a bit (as many are). The main reason I ask is that engine wear is elevated at lower temps, so in your case, with no overheating issues, running a 180F thermostat would probably be better for the overall longevity of your engine (and maybe fuel economy as well).

I agree with shorts guy. Running at 160 is too low. Probably your gauge is incorrect, mine is, it shows my engine running at a consistent 70C which is wrong, but I can't be bothered to change it.

Does anyone know where to get a 6 blade fan? It says NA in the Moss catalogue.

As I am sure you have found out by now cooling problems are endemic to Healeys and many of us have been down this road. As mentioned above, start with the easy stuff as you might get lucky and not have to spend big bucks and a lot of time replacing your rad, etc.

I did not see any mention of how much advance you are running and too much of it will definitely cause overheating and maybe worse. That is the first thing you should check and it costs nothing to get it right.

For my money the best fan is the metal flex fan sold by British Car Service (Nock) and you can buy it direct from them rather than a copy from someone else.

I bought a BJ8 about 2 months ago. It has a fast road engine in it with one of those red multi-blade fans. Stationary in traffic it was getting a bit "hot and bothered", reaching up to just below 100 deg C on times and I was getting a bit worried. I did a lot of research in the archives and decided that before I upgraded the rad I'd try boxing it in as suggested by Geoff Healey. It's dropped the temperature in traffic by at least 5 degs C and now hardly ever gets up to 90 C and I've only boxed in three sides, the steering box side is a bit of a challenge with the rad in the car! It doesn't get that hot in the UK (70F) and I'm still waiting for a hot day to really test it out. I have however left it idling in the garage for some time when I've been trying to tune the carbs and the highest it got was 85 C. So, my theory is that when at standstill the big fan just circulates more hot air from the engine bay back round to the rad intake. I think most of the cooling was being done by hot air from the engine bay.



Regards
AJ