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Direction indicators not working

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
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Hi all
Just took my BT7 for a drive and noticed the turn indicators are not working. Anything obvious to check?
The fuse hasn't blown
I replaced the flasher unit (not the flasher relay) - still not working. Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance
Steve.
 

HealeyRick

Yoda
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Check the bullet connectors coming out of the steering box, sometimes they become disconnected. Check your bulbs to see they are not burnt out or placed in the holder incorrectly. Check the wiring grounds. Otherwise, I forsee some time tracing the circuits with the circuit diagram and a test light. Not hard, but fiddly. Do you get any noise from the flasher unit when you engage the signal?
 

RAC68

Darth Vader
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Steve,

An often overlooked cause of directional failure and before you get into the nuts and bolts of the directional signal ... have you cleaned the steering wheel/hub/surrounding vinyl/leather with a spray conditioner/cleaner like ArmorAll (or similar). If so, these sprays can penetrating through the switch opening and insulate the contacts and cause the unit not to function or function sporadically. A electronic contact cleaner will easily resolve this condition.

It happened to me and I didn't consider this until I had addressed every mechanical issue ... what a waste of time and effort when I could have solved my directional problem in a few minutes (including the time for retrieving the contact cleaner from the shelf), had I even considered this possibility.

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
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Thanks Rick and Ray
The cable coming out of the steering box goes directly into the wiring harness from a quick inspection I cannot see any external bullet connectors. There is no noise from the flasher unit when I engage direction signal at the steering wheel.
I will check for burnt out bulbs but would one burnt out bulb stop all indicators working? Would a burnt out dashboard warning light influence anything?
I haven't had time today but tomorrow I will methodically check the circuit.
Good point Ray but I have not used a spray.
Thanks for your help
Steve
 

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
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Thanks Rick and Ray
The cable coming out of the steering box goes directly into the wiring harness from a quick inspection I cannot see any external bullet connectors. There is no noise from the flasher unit when I engage direction signal at the steering wheel.
I will check for burnt out bulbs but would one burnt out bulb stop all indicators working? Would a burnt out dashboard warning light influence anything?
I haven't had time today but tomorrow I will methodically check the circuit.
Good point Ray but I have not used a spray.
Thanks for your help
Steve

The trafficator has a separate harness, else you'd have to remove the entire wiring harness to remove the trafficator. On the 6-cyl cars--at least, on my BJ8--the trafficator harness 'tail' is pretty long and connects to the main harness under the shroud, near the radiator tank. Very inconvenient to get at (from underneath). The 100s have a shorter tail that connects to the main harness on the front cross-brace; much easier to get at but probably more susceptible to water and dirt contamination.
 

Keoke

Great Pumpkin
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The contacts of the switch may simply require a good cleaning:emmersed:
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
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Hi all
Ok so I checked out what I could so far
-Bullet connections from steering harness to main harness look and feel fine- nothing loose
-Voltage is getting to the flasher unit
-I bridged the green and green/brown wires and no lights lit up so the flasher unit is OK

The manual says to check for broken bulb filaments but no lights light up at all including the one on the dash. So what would cause that?

The next to check is the brake switch override relay and also the direction indicator switch.
Checking the override relay looks fiddly and I might just replace this if after checking everything else there is no change.
I will check and clean out the direction indicator switch but I have a question. The steering wheel boss onto which the motalita steering wheel is fitted is a solid alluminium item and there is one grub screw in the side fairly close to the top. Do I just take out the grub screw to release the indication switch?
I am trying to understand why no lights at all light up.

I really appreciate your help
thanks
Steve
 

Goldie

Senior Member
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Are brake lights working. I had a similar problem and fuse looked good. It was old and filament intact but after removing it found the metal cap was loose and no connection. Just one other thing to confirm.
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
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Hi all
I have checked what I can and am now thinking that the fault may be the indicator switch.

- Voltage is getting to the flasher unit
- The flasher unit is OK ( checked by substituting new one)
- Brake lights working
- Horn working
- Continuity over bullet connections between steering harness and main harness all OK
- As no bulbs at all light up including the one on the dash I cannot see the problem would be the brake switch overriding relay or blown bulbs.

So, my next move (as Ray mentioned) is to clean the contacts of the indicator switch however is my understanding of how to do this correct?
Do I
-remove the horn button and ring
-remove the two blades of the horn switch
-remove the internal screw to allow the bakelite cover/head to be removed to access the turns signal lever

Also, have I missed anything?

Many thanks for your valuable advice
Steve
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

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Hi Ray,
I noticed that in an earlier thread (2012) on the same subject you advised checking to see if the problem is the trafficator by establishing if power is leaving the trafficator and to do this by checking voltage at the base of the steering column. To do this do I make a switch to the right or left and check between the green wire and an earth?
thanks
Steve
 

vette

Darth Vader
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Steve, put your hand on the brake/turnsignal flasher relay on the inner left fender apron then have someone move the trafficator on the steering wheel between left position and right position. If your flasher relay is getting power from the trafficator you should be able to feel the relay click on and off or from one side to the other. Also check for voltage at the # 1 terminal on the relay as per the drawing below. It should be flashing when either one of the turn signals is turned on. Your trafficator may have lost it's ground connection that would keep it from turning on either of the turnsignals. With the trafficator turned right or left if those switches inside the trafficator are working then you should have voltage at terminals # 4 & 8 at the flasher/brake relay.
The contacts in the relay may have failed, especially the ones connected to terminal #1. If you have brake lights but no turn signals then I believe the brake?turnsignal flasher relay is not being thrown to the right or left. See drawing:
 

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RAC68

Darth Vader
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Hi Steve,

The lines at the base of the steering column green/blue (left) or green/yellow (right) wires which are connected to the flasher relay at terminals 4 and 8 respectively. I would check to see if power is reaching terminal 4 or 8 on the Flasher Relay and, if not, trace back to the steering column and flasher. If power is being received on either of these Flasher Relay terminals, check terminal 3 (output for terminal 4 input) and terminal 7 (output for terminal 8 input). If power is present at terminal 4 or 8 of the Flasher Relay but not transferred to terminals 3 or 7, you have a problem in your Flasher Relay. If no power is being received at your Flasher Relay terminals, the problem could be in the directional switch if power is being received at the green connector of the steering column and not being transferred when the switch is activated at the Green/blue or Green/yellow column connectors.

That's all I can thing of off hand. Keep all informed of any additional discoveries.

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
Last edited:

Bob_Spidell

Yoda
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I advise exhausting all other possibilities--Ray's suggestions are excellent--before you dig into the trafficator itself. It's been a while, but I've disassembled both BN2 and BJ8 trafficators, and it's not a fun job. First, you have to remove the trafficator from the steering column (it's a bit less hassle if you have an adjustable hub), as you can only get into the innards from the backside of the unit. There are lots of fiddly bits in there; if you don't drop one on the floor and spend an hour looking for it consider yourself lucky (and if you drop something down the steering column good luck). It's not likely the contacts in the trafficator are the problem; especially since both directions are not working for you. The 'switch' is a sliding brass plate that is slid over a brass screw, corresponding to direction, with a round head--they're held in place by the trafficator's 'casting'--and it's not likely that any grit or dirt would get inside to cause a failure. The most common failure inside the trafficator in my experience is failure to cancel, as the cam mechanism is fussy and pieces can break off.

Don't assume the old school connectors--my dad's Model As used the same type--are good just because they don't feel loose. The metal, outer part of the connector--the part the bullets slide into--can stretch and lose contact, and I've seen them break; that's why I sprung for one of these when I needed to completely rewire our BN2:

https://www.britishwiring.com/Tool-Snap-Connector-Tool-p/ssc1.htm

Others have pointed out you can roll your own by cutting a slot in the end of a pair of pliers.
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
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Gentlemen, many thanks for your help so far.
Latest update!
-Voltage to flasher ok
-Flasher unit working
-Brake lights working
-Horn working (same earth as trafficator?)
-Voltage to terminal 1 on brake switch flasher relay ok
-no voltage at terminals 4 and 8 of brake switch flasher relay
- I checked voltage across green wire and green/blue wire (also green/yellow) on steering column side of harness and the meter indicated 12 volts immediately I turned on the ignition switch. It didn't change when I moved the indicator switch to right or left! I am not an electrical engineer and just going on what I am reading and your advice so I was surprised about this voltage indication. - I tried to do a continuity check using the same connections and didn't get a buzzing indication.
Is this indicating a problem with the indicator switch?
The car had a new main harness and steering column harness in 2009 and the whole thing was reassembled by a well known restorer so I am surprised if there is a problem here,
I really appreciate your advice. I am learning more and more about Healeys.
Cheers
Steve
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Hi all (again)
Just tried what it suggests in the manual. I temporarily linked terminal 1 to terminal 2 and the flasher on the left hand side worked. Is this indicating that the brake switch flasher relay is OK?
Steve
 
OP
warwick-steve

warwick-steve

Jedi Hopeful
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Forgot to say that I checked to hear if there was any click at the brake switch flasher relay when operating the indicator switch. There was no click.
Cheers
Steve
 

vette

Darth Vader
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John, jumpering terminal 1 to terminal 2 isn't telling you anything worthwhile. All it is doing is taking the voltage at #1 and connecting it to #2. #1 is the blinked power source coming from the little round turnsignal flasher. #2 is the terminal that feed the power out to the left front turn signal. So doing that will make the left front turnsignal blink if the small flasher is working. Which it sounds like in your case that the small round flasher is working or blinking.
So you said that there is no power at #4 and #8. This is the problem because these two terminals are the ones that control the brake/turnsignal relay. So now we have to figure out why there is no voltage at those two terminals. Just for your knowledge if you look at my drawing you will note that #4 is the terminal that pulls the relay for the left turnsignals. This should have a green/blue wire on it and comes from the base of the steering column and ultimately the trafficator left side. Terminal #8 is the terminal that pulls the relay for the right turnsignals and it should have a green/yellow wire on it and it also goes over to the bottom of the steering column. The other wire at the bottom of the steering column is a green wire. This wire should be hot whenever the ignition switch is turned on. Make sure that this green wire is hot when the ignition switch is turned on. Make sure that you probe well into the connectors. the green wire at the bottom of the steering column is sourced from one of two places depending on the year of the Healey. On the early 100/6s this green wire is coming directly from the top 35 amp fuse. On the early 3000s this green wire is coming from a dual connection at the little round turnsignal flasher. the power is brought to the round flasher from the top fuse and then off the same terminal of the round flasher the green wire is then run out to the bottom of the steering box. So this green wire at the bottom of the steering box MUST BE HOT WHEN IGNITION IS ON. And it gets its power from the top 35 amp fuse. If the green wire is hot then the green/blue and the green/yellow wires at the steering box must get hot when the trafficator is pushed one way or the other. The green/blue will get hot when the trafficator is pushed to the left and the green yellow will get hot when the trafficator is pushed to the right. So if green is hot, and green/blue and green/yellow never get hot, then the trafficator is bad or the wires are broken inside the steering column (rather unlikely).
Now, a quick fix. Firstly, jumper the green to the green/blue and the left turnsignals should work. Then jumper the green to the green/yellow and the right turnsignals should work.
If this is the case then you can mount an alternative switch to do what the trafficator is suppose to do. I did this one time when my trafficator was acting up. Buy a 3-way, toggle switch from the parts supply house. This switch will have 3 terminals on it. It can be called an on/off/on switch. I mounted this switch to a small bracket that I made for it and mounted it under the dash to any convenient screw. Disconnect the green wire, the green/blue wire and the green/yellow wire at the bottom of the steering box. Run the green wire to the center terminal of the new switch, the green/blue wire to the left terminal of the new switch and the green/yellow wire to the right terminal of the new switch. Turn the ignition on and the brake/turnsignal relay will work. Job Done. Fix the trafficator later. Cheers.
 

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glemon

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It sounds like the problem is in the trafficator switch, they are a lot of fun, I think I took mine apart a half dozen times or more to get my turn signals to reliably work and self cancel on my 100. However my problems were intermittent failure off one side or the other not total loss of signals. I finally did get them to reliably work after some bending of the contacts.

As I recall lots of little odd sized screws and also small parts, springs and rollers, that are easy to lose. The wires can come loose and or break in there, and it is all very fiddly putting it back together and stuffing them back in. If you enjoy repairing things like an old fashioned mechanical wrist watch you will be in fine shape!
 

RAC68

Darth Vader
Offline
Hi Steve/Vette,

Vette has provided a clear and accurate explanation of the function and wiring of this reasonably complex circuit. Keep in mind that the ground for circuit operation is provided at each bulb and a filament burnout will eliminate ground connection for that leg of the circuit. The ground for relay within the brake/flasher relay is provided only by the units ground with power for the relay provided through terminals #4 or #8.

If I am interpreting your comments correctly, you mentioned that at the base of the steering column, you had power delivered to the green wire as well as power at BOTH green/blue and green/yellow contacts simultaneously. Additionally, you indicated moving the switch from side to side made no difference with both sides remaining powered. This indicates a fault in the trafficator circuit and either a wiring short (not likely) or switch fault.

Also, you indicated although you did have power at the 2 client connectors at the bottom of the column, power was not present at either flasher-relay terminals (4 or 8). If this is correct, you either have 2 wires burned out or non-functioning connectors at the base of the column.

With no power at terminal #4 or #8, the internal relay can not function and the switch will not take place. Additionally, you also indicated that jumping Flasher-relay terminal 1 to terminal 2 allowed the lights on the left side to illuminate and blink. With this result, and knowing your brake lights also function, you have shown that both light circuits have grounds and the flasher-relay's internal contact points are functioning properly.

To check out the relay within the flasher-relay, I would jump terminal 1 to terminal 4 (left) or 8 (right). If the left side signal lights blink when terminal 1 is jumped to terminal 4 and moved to the right side when the jumper is moved from to terminal 8, I would consider the internal relay functioning properly and the full flasher-relay working.

So, we are down to
1. A fault in the trafficator switch (delivering power to both client circuits simultaneously) and
2. NO Power being delivered from either of the client leads at the steering column to the flasher relay.

Again, some of my analysis is based on my interpretation of your presentation of your test results.

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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