TR2/3/3A Here we go again...

For those of you wishing to hear about my adventures...

My annual family reunion will be in rural (South Fork) Pennsylvania this weekend. Prudence and I are going. She will fly to Pittsburgh, but we will return to Houston together, stopping to visit her family in (Springfield) Tennessee. For a reason than continues to escape me, I decided (again) to drive the TR3 (again).

You may recall some issues I've had in the past on my longer than average trips. -The most recent involving a failed alternator. But since my very first long TR trip, I've had some stalling and/or failing to restart when hot. I decided I should try to figure out why my car didn't seem to like slowing after running well for a long time. Generally, I avoid driving in temperatures above 95 degrees, but I felt pretty sure my issue was heat related -and I'm bound to get stuck in traffic and heat in July.

Last week, I drove 30 miles to a friends house with the outside temperature at 95. My fuel filter, fitted just before the carbs, measured 176 degrees -I could see fuel bubbling in the clear filter. The car would idle, but barely and not smoothly. I rerouted the fuel line (the pipe from the fuel pump was almost touching the block -I moved it so my finger will easily fit between the block and the pipe) and installed a insulated wrap sleeve over the fuel line from the filter to the pump. The next day, I drove the same 30 miles with the air temperature about as unbearable. When I got there, the temperature at the filter was 130 degrees. The fuel in the filter was barely bubbling, and the engine idled smoothly.

I really don't like it when my car stalls in traffic. The present weather forecast is not calling for heat, but rain. I'm hoping this trip is less of an adventure than last time. If the alternator bearing fails, I have a complete spare alternator with pulley already mounted in the boot along with a spare belt of the proper length. If that one also fails, I have a complete generator with pulley installed, all the hardware and it's proper length belt in the boot. If that one also fails before I get home... I will think I'm having a really bad day.

My next adventure will not start before Wednesday afternoon, but I'm already on the edge of my seat.

That really sounds like fun. I've never taken a road trip in a classic car, and probably won't be able to, but I'd still like that.

As for the fuel issues--modern fuels really don't like heat. Back when I had my Bugeye Sprite, I had a problem similar to yours. To diagnose it, I replaced the fuel lines from the fuel filter to the carbs, temporarily of course, with clear vinyl. That was quite an eye-opener. The fuel fizzed like ginger ale, forming large bubbles in the upper, arching loops of fuel line. For a while, the pump was able to push fuel past the bubbles, but eventually they got so big that they affected fuel delivery. The solution was to reroute the lines so that they had no arches and went straight up to the carbs; then the fuel bubbles simply rose into the carbs and vented out of the overflow tubes.

Let me know if you're passing through E. Tennessee and need anything.

Mickey

Well you did the right thing by bringing a spare alternator. One year i went through 4 rebuilt generators in 2 months. To and fro from the Roadster Factory Summer Party (3 hours away) 2 while I was there for 3 days. One after a month when I got home. That winter Charles had a sale on brand new generators so I purchased one and it rides with me where ever I go. That was 14 years ago and no failures thus far. A word to the wise is after you figure out all that is plaguing your car, don't brag how well the car is running. 2 weeks ago I took the wife for a ice cream cone (a special place 25 miles away) and mentioned to her that the car has never ran better. 3 days later I'm changing the water pump and the clutch master cylinder. If anyone ask me how the car is running regardless how it is running, from now on my reply is that it's running like excrement.

You might want to plan your route with gas stations that sell ethanol free gasoline. They are getting popular around here and in many states. I'm sure you can GOOGLE it. I've got one 5 miles away and all the TR's get it and all my equipment too. Especially the 2 cycle ones.

Have fun Jer! You know, Pittsburgh is only a 7-8 hr drive to upstate NY. Just sayin!

Tex-N--- I for one appreciate your methodology. My auto-shop teacher in 1968 debated with us what people called vapor-lock, and we would talk about stuff like putting wooden clothes pins on the fuel line and some other stuff that escapes me. The teacher basically said that vapor lock did not exist and there was something else wrong.

But here in the Seattle area we rarely get into the 90ies, so that has got to be a big variable. What you troubleshoot and how you went about will stay in my mental filling system. Your trips are very cool and I enjoy hearing about them and heck in today’s world with cell phones and car transporters coast to coast for not that much, really--- you just keep up the good work and enjoy this life as much as you can=== plus help others, but it sounds like I heard you are a fireman, so you got some of that covered.

What is in upstate NY another Woodstock?
steve

Cool...another road trip to follow!

Texas, you have perfectly described 'vapor lock'. (sp53, as you already know, your professor was wrong).

The solution seems to lie around the idea of keeping the fuel cool as it circulates in the engine compartment, ie; wrap insulating tape around the fuel line every where it may be near heat. Install an effective heat shield over the exhaust man.

I have even considered a 'spritzer system' with a several gallon reservoir and a foot switch to cool the engine at times of 'extreme duress'.

I have this in our classic Revcon motorhome. It taps into the water system. That wouldn't convert directly to our TRs, but it would make a good emergency temporary cooling system for those steep, long climbs on 110 degree days!

Thom
1959 TR3
#TS34909L(O)

Might want to get rid of the fuel filter. My understanding is that the SUs don't need it, and it's just one more impediment to good fuel flow.

Thanks for the comments.

Steve, Randy was alluding to having me visit, as he doesn't get many Texas Triumph visitors while he is escaping our heat -and rain.

There is a difference between 'vapor lock' and 'percolation'. Percolation is when fuel boils in the carburetor resulting in a rich mixture, vapor lock is when fuel boils in the line causing delivery issues. Fuel additives can and do effect the boiling point. Before I drove to my friends house (with a hot engine and stumbling to idle), I had determined the fuel line entering the pump was under 100 degrees (slightly above the temperature of the air) but the fuel filter was over 170 degrees and the carburetor bowl was cooler, so I assumed heat was being absorbed into the fuel between the pump and the filter. Since the mechanical pump is connected to the block, we can assume the pump will add some heat to the fuel. Using one of those IR/Lazer temperature guns, we could see the hottest point on the fuel line was at the 90 degree upward bend immediately after the pump -where the line was closest to the block (which we know the block heat to be controlled by the thermostat at 185). I really like the idea of rerouting the fuel line to make it easier for the bubbles to escape, but for now, I'm satisfied that my car will idle after a decent drive at 95 degrees. That's warmer than I am comfortable.

With the force of my Triumph moving me, I will be in Tennessee tonight -in only 800 miles, I will be at the halfway point. And it just started to rain...

Keep moving TEX!

For ethanol free gas go to "pure-gas.org". They list over 1000 stations located in all states. And you can check by state. They recommend you call ahead because things change and with that many locations it hard to keep completely up to date.

My Series IIa Land Rover had the same basic issue. A very similar mechanical fuel pump and when I ran a while and then parked, apparently the fuel boiled off in the line. It would start and the fuel in the carb would last just long enough for me to get into traffic, and then it would die...and not restart. I tried rerouting the line but no joy. It was the fuel pump itself, attached to the block obviously, which got so hot that it vaporized the fuel. The fuel in the line would drain towards the pump and get vaporized, etc. I guess the old Rover was not designed for Nevada heat. I ran a noisy electric Carter fuel pump and bypassed the mechanical fuel pump and so far that item on the punch list has been resolved. So far.

Oh. Just to add: if you think keeping a Triumph running is dicey, get a Series Land Rover for a whole new experience in diagnosing the various sounds and issues. And if you really are an idiot (like me) you have a TR3 AND a Series Rover AND a wife AND a job AND no spare time anyway.

Jerry...we're holding our breathes in suspense. Did you make Nashville and blow on through?

Oops sorry for keeping you waiting.

I left my house in Houston at about 1pm -after the hard rain while it was slightly raining. By the time I got on the beltway, it was dry with lots of large clouds mixed with bright sun and steam. By the time I got to Nacogdoches it was hot. In most of the state, SH59 is becoming I69. Same basic route, but less stops. When I saw the "business 59" and "69 bypass" I assumed Nacogdoches was doing the same thing. SH69 goes somewhere I didn't need to be. In about 12 miles I realized I had chosen the road less traveled, consulted the gps, u-turned and was on 7 (i think) to get me back on track. What a great road. It was tree lined, short hills with nice turns and no traffic. Until I came upon the section that was down to single lane. -because they were renewing the chip and seal surface. For every yin there is a yang.

I drove thru Nashville just before 2am. I love the traffic at that hour.

I found myself in stop-n-go traffic due to construction in West Virginia that took 50 minutes to go 2 miles. No stalling/stumbling or overheating although it wasn't what I would call 'hot' out.

Someone in a nice Tr6 pulled along side asking if I was driving a MG. We played cat and mouse for the next 20 miles after the congestion cleared.

I arrived at my destination by 10pm. Didn't hit any rain. Tr3 purred along like a 58 year old kitten.

Now I'm halfway there -I still need to make it back. I hate typing with my cellphone...

Just like Lemans! Pretty hardcore doing it all in one sitting. Glad you made it!

No, not in one sitting. I stayed in Goodlettsville at a hotel from 4 to 9am. I am not so deranged as to drive straight through.

That's OK...you're still our hero for doing such a long trip at all.

Before 10am Monday, Prudence and I left Summerhill Pa in the Tr3. We stopped for lunch and gas. We watched fireworks during dinner in Franklin Ky and arrived at our destination at exactly our anticipated time of 10pm.

Tennessee takes rural more seriously than Pennsylvania. You can take an exit from the interstate onto an unpaved road. We drove over a one lane, wooden slated bridge on a numbered state road. Before they could paint a double line on the road, they'd have to widen the road. They put the Bo in Dump.

We will spend the day with family and before dark be on the road to Houston -we are halfway there.

Awesome. Happy 4th and best of luck on the home stretch. Not to jinx you, but it appears you finally have the charging problems licked.