• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

TR4/4A Are the ARP head studs worth it? [ducks for cover]

Share this page

T

tdskip

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Hi guys - I know this may be a "what is the best oil" kind of question, but given that I need to order a couple head studs I would like to do it once and be done with it on my head gasket issues.

Are the standard Moss studs OK for use? Are the ARP bolts worth it and considered a "must have" to do it right?

Any coaching here?

Thanks for all of the help here (and on previous questions). Engine internals are new to me, so trying to learn and document/capture wisdom for others here.
 
tinman58

tinman58

Jedi Knight
Silver
Country flag
Offline
I don't think it is a must have. But I have used ARP on both my engines. I think it is worth the little extra investment. I would also replace the set all together not just a couple that might be bad.
 
Rut

Rut

Obi Wan
Country flag
Offline
I've built engines with and without ARP studs/bolts and the only failure I have had was on an MGB original rod bolt. To me rod bolts are a must have ARP since a broken one causes catastrophic engine damage...head and main bolts not so much. Standard practice from the leading engine builder that I get my parts kit from is all ARP, nothing less...cheap insurance. On my TR4a engine build I'm using Maxpeedingrods and they come with ARP fasteners.
Rut
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    47.7 KB · Views: 127
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    39.8 KB · Views: 124
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    75.7 KB · Views: 119
poolboy

poolboy

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I don't think there's enough compression trying to blow the cylinder head off the TR 4's block to really and truly warrant Automotive Racing Products head studs but don't let that stop you, TD...I have them on my TR6
 
TR4nut

TR4nut

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I agree- they are good quality and if I'm going to the effort of a rebuild I don't mind splurging a little. I also like the allen socket end to help install or remove. Plus ebay shopping has kept the price down for me a bit.
 
M

mallard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
You can get the ARP studs for not much more that the stock studs if you look around. Just do a Google search for them and save some money.
 
OP
T

tdskip

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Thanks guys - will do some comparison shopping. Current issue is one of the bolts with stretched threads refuses to come out. Double nutting not working - sigh.

I did notice that one of the studs I removed had a ring of rust on it - how does that happen?
 
martx-5

martx-5

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
tdskip said:
... Current issue is one of the bolts with stretched threads refuses to come out. Double nutting not working - sigh.
Click to expand...

I ran into this problem when I rebuilt my engine, I sprayed everything with PB Blaster, but had two studs that refused to budge. I called Ken Gillanders at British Frame & Engine and he said to put a big pipe wrench on the recalcitrant studs and they will come out. I asked him if he's seen any break by doing this, and he mentioned that he's seen it once in all the years he's been messing with TRactor motors. Odds seemed to be on my side so I gave it a go. I watched the first stud twist and then go pop...it hadn't broken...cranked some more and heard pop, pop, pop very quickly and the stud was screwing out. Same for the other stud. Worked fine for me, but YMMV. :encouragement:
 
M

mallard

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
If the stuck ones happen to be the front and back studs on the distributor side of the engine use caution with the pipe wrench. The block is very thin there and may crack. Very common area to crack, mine did.
 
glemon

glemon

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I have not used them on TR4A, AH100, and TR250 (same as TR6) engine rebuilds. I have not raced any of these cars, but do rev at or near the redline from time to time. Haven't had a problem. I consider it a matter of budget/priorities/use of car. I don't think they are a bad idea by any means, but don't know if they are absolutely needed.


Also keep in mind professional rebuilders and mechanics are playing a different game, say the odds are 3$ (pulled out of the air for illustrative purposes) that some sort of bolt or stud failure occurs if you don't use the ARPs. They do 100 motors a year they have 3 that they either have a mad customer or they have to eat costs on. As I DIY guy, I am willing to take a low percentage risk on my own motor, that will, odds are, save my money and I would never know or feel the difference if I used the more expensive part.
 
KVH

KVH

Darth Vader
Country flag
Offline
I'm trying to decide right now. My old studs look fine. But on another car I had a broken stud and it really made my heart skip. Pulling the engine and block would have been a big job. I'm the one who must have caused the stud eventually to snap, and at most I over-torqued it by 5 foot pounds. For $200 I'm not sure it's worth it, but on the other hand I'm not sure how many times the 50-year old standard studs can be torqued and re-torqued.

By the way, my broken stud sheared off right near the top and I was able to get it our easily.
 
glemon

glemon

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I like Randall's approach to the issue, clean them up, run a nut up and down, if it spins easy should be OK, if it hangs up it may be stretched, replace.
 
CJD

CJD

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
ARP studs are very worth it. If you want the best, they are it. That said...for a stock engine I have no worries using stock or Moss studs. A 60 year vintage stock 4 banger is not high enough performance to tax the stock studs.
 
B

billspit

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
I snapped a replacement head stud acquired from one of the better suppliers. I ended up using one of the old ones. I would definitely go with ARP next time.
 
OP
T

tdskip

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Hi Bill - it feels like I about to do that. I have it triple nutted and it it wont budge even when I really push on the wrench.

Just more time with daily PBlaster soaking? Try heading the stud with a torch?
 
poolboy

poolboy

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Sometimes a little bit of pressure in the tightening direction (cw) breaks up whatever is binding, then undo ccw
 
OP
T

tdskip

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
OK - finally. Got them all out with that reminder from Ken and everyone's help. That last one is finger tight - left it in there as I was surprised it has as much oil on it as it did. Is that normal for the long bolts?

I am going to order the ARP bolts.



Thanks guys.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
KVH General Tech ARP Head Studs/Liner Protrusion Triumph 10
DrEntropy MGB And now, NO ARP head studs to be found! MG 13
R ARP head and connection rod studs? Spridgets 15
M ARP head studs Triumph 5
martx-5 ARP Head Studs Triumph 21
Morris ARP Head studs torque... Spridgets 2
ChrisS ARP Head Studs Racing 2
RJS TR4/4A ARP Head Stud Question Triumph 2
hondo402000 TR6 TR6 ARP head bolts Triumph 4
hondo402000 TR6 ARP Head stud kit 71 TR6[ Where to buy] Triumph 10
D ARP big end bolts. Spridgets 7
G TR4/4A ARP Bolt Torque Specs Triumph 10
T TR4/4A Should I use ARP Assembly Lubricant for Engine Assembly and Fastener Installation? Triumph 2
T TR2/3/3A ARP connecting rod bolts Triumph 2
RedTR3 TR2/3/3A Moss [ARP] Flywheel Bolts Triumph 16
F Using 12 point ARP style rod and main bolts Spridgets 9
hondo402000 TR6 TR6, 71 model flywheel bolts, ARP Triumph 2
S I just bought ARP main stud kit 206-5405 Austin Healey 4
L ARP fastners. Spridgets 4
Basil ARP studs too short Triumph 18
DNK ARP Studs Triumph 74
Glen_B Torque for ARP mains Spridgets 1
G ARP Assembly Lubricant....how to use the stuff Triumph 9
Morris ARP studs torque and blown headgasket Spridgets 17
7 ARP bolt kits Triumph 2
A ARP flywheel bolts--install Latest [no Loctite] Triumph 11
healeyboz ARP bolts Spridgets 6
healeyboz ARP bolts Spridgets 5
ChrisS ARP Rod Bolts Spridgets 7
K TR2/3/3A New head gasket is installed.....did a compression check motor cold. Triumph 3
J Spitfire Payen Head Gasket -which way up ? Triumph 6
R TR6 Classic british car mechanic on Hilton Head SC Triumph 0
K TR2/3/3A The steel head stud washers? Triumph 7
K TR2/3/3A Applying the Permatex copper gasket spray to the head gasket? Triumph 6
S Spitfire Cyl head coolant hose fitting Triumph 1
B TR6 Milling the head Triumph 5
sim 948 aluminum head gasket Spridgets 2
K TR2/3/3A Retorquing the Cylinder Head after the initial torquing.? Triumph 23
S TR2/3/3A Rebuilding a cylinder head Triumph 10
petnatcar Cylinder Head Nuts - Tightening Sequence Austin Healey 2
tahoe healey "Convertible" vs "Drop Head Coupe" Austin Healey 8
K TR2/3/3A head gasket repair wire Randall Triumph 1
K TR2/3/3A Checking a cylinder head with a straight edge to see if it's warped? Triumph 22
K TR2/3/3A Cylinder Head Bolt question.... Triumph 3
Celtic 77 MGB Mystery cylinder head attachment. MG 4
tinman58 TR2/3/3A Head Gasket Triumph 15
K TR2/3/3A Cylinder head removal and valve adjustment Triumph 2
K TR2/3/3A Update on the blown head gasket Triumph 33
K TR2/3/3A Bad news...blown head gasket??? Triumph 15
F TR2/3/3A head light buckets Triumph 3

Similar threads

Top