TR2/3/3A Tubes in steel wheels?

Hopefully this will be an easy one. I have a 57 TR3. Did the steel wheels originally come with tubeless tires? Do the original wheels support modern tubeless tires? The reason I ask is that this car has tubes in all 5 wheels and newer steel belted radials (probably at least 20 yrs old, have to check the date code). I took the spare up to my local garage and he remounted it without the tube and all seems OK but I won't get the final word until I pick it up tomorrow.

Cheers, Dave

BTW, I am thinking of calling this car Forrest Gump - it seems like it's the box of chocolates where you never know what you're gonna get.

Dave:
I have had two sets of radials (both 155 X 15) and 38,000 miles on my 54 TR2. The steel wheels are original to the car because they are all 4" rather than the later 4 1/2". Maybe its entire life but at least while in my care, it has always been tubeless!

Lou Metelko
Auburn, Indiana

Hello Dave

Is it safe to use 20 year old tires? I thought that they dry rotted as they age.

David

David

Not really safe. There is some cracking but not severe. Replacing the tires is on the ever-growing list. But I have to get new tires for my 1940 Buick first!

Cheers, Dave

Daves1957TR-3 said:

Not really safe...

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That is putting it optimistically -- I would simply say they are unsafe.

As I understand it, cracks on the sidewall (where you often see them on old tires) are not the greatest concern -- it is when you look down into the tread and see cracks that the tire is ready to be a swing (or whatever comes next).

With steel radials, the tire can be dangerously old no matter how good the rubber looks. Anything over about 10 years old is a disaster waiting to happen!
BTDT

Ten years maximum is the number I've heard on occasion, as well, from people who know a lot about these things.

Dunno about TR3s specifically, but the disk wheels of many cars that predate radial tires can take them, as long as the wheel rim is solid enough that it won't leak. Most older wheels do not have the ridge, however, that hold the tire on the rim if it deflates suddenly, but I suspect this is an issue with tubes as well as tubeless. I put tubeless tires on my MG TD, and they worked well, held pressure well. The rim was riveted to the disk, a potential leak, but the rivets seemed quite tight and didn't leak measurably. I also made sure that the sealing surfaces along the inside edge of the rim were smooth and not corroded.

Conversely, many modern radial tires have a rough interior that will shred a tube, so you shouldn't use a tube with those.

I believe the original radials for TR3 were tube type. However, I've never seen a problem running tubeless on them.
It is true that they lack the "safety bead", but that isn't a requirement for tubeless tires, just another safety improvement that happened about the same time.

Thanks to all. I picked up the remounted tire yesterday and it is fine. So I will go ahead with getting new tires and remounting. I have to get 2 rims repaired. The evidence on the car is it was in an accident and sustained front damage and the "spare" rim has one of the lug holes out of position (laterally), so I need to get it pressed back in place and make sure the rim is trued up. The other has a dent and small split on the outer bead, maybe this is why they went to tubes. In any case there is a shop here that can do this work, although probably not cheaply.

BTW, the car has 165x15 tires currently. Is this the right size, or should it be 155x15?

Thanks, Dave

I think the 165 didn't come along until later. You'll find them very hard to get in and out of the spare tire compartment, with a body before TS60k.

I use the 165-15 - to me they look right and are possibly easier to find.

Always amazing to me that that size (165-15) has so few choices when it was the tire used on the most popular car of the 20th century.

The original steel wheels were designed for tires with tubes.
They do not have the so called "hump", which is a feature on todays wheels on both inner and outer side (coded as "JJ" in the descriptional code of a wheel).

What is it good for? It prevents a semi inflated tire, to jump of the rim tom the inside when lateral forces are applied - happening for example when cornering. In this case, a tubeless tire on a steel wheel without hump may be pushed inside for a moment. With hump it is stopped (ever heared the "plopp" when inflating a tire the first time?) - without it slips off an would slip back. But without tube the tire looses its air rapidly and so no force to push the tire back. AND this happens while you are still cornering - resulting in a fatal loss of roadholding.

For me - driving sometimes "hard" the only safe option is running with tubes.

TS27952L said:

...For me - driving sometimes "hard" the only safe option is running with tubes.

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Though, as I understand it, the use of tubes does reduce the speed rating of the tire (due to greater heat buildup).

In addition, almost all modern tires are not rated for use with tubes at all. Some tire installers will even refuse to install them with tubes, as they could be held liable in case of tire failure.

The preceding post sounds like yet another reason for changing one's own tires, instead of having the circumstances of one's car be determined by a pimple-faced twit at a chain tire store. We're talking about disc wheels here, but running tubes in Triumph tires is pretty-much essential to avoid slow leaks in original wire wheels - so there are many, many folks who do so. The downside is that the tube will add a little weight to the wheel, and the upside is fewer leaks. Riveted disc wheels can leak at the rivets, but (thankfully) it's not too common.

Good practice is also to lightly "lubricate" the inside of the tire or outside of the tube with talcum powder when installing the tube. Real talcum powder is still sold as "hypo-allergenic" body powder in drugstores. Normal body powder these days is mostly cornstarch.

I usually use 165-15 tires for the road wheels of TR2s and TR3s, and buy a 155-15 to fit in the spare wheel slot of the early cars. Also found that there was a difference of as much as 5 pounds in the weight of 155-15 tires, so went with the lightest one (Vredestein, iirc) for the spare as well as the road wheels. This was a few years ago, though, so am not sure what's available now.

I still run tubes in one set of wires but have another set I sealed with this:



Those also hold air fine. Never had a rivet leak with a tubeless steel wheel - if I did I would seal those too.