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Thread: new wheels and tires

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    new wheels and tires

    72 TR6, highly modified. tires are getting worn, found a cracked wheel over the weekend; i think its time to upgrade.

    we want 16" wheels and something close to 215/60R16 tires. (currently we have stock TR6 wheels and 215/60R15). i've looked at the charts and done some calculations; the one inch won't affect the speedo accuracy too much.

    its tough searching for wheels; i found one place where i can get some good qulaity 16's, but that's it. 15's would be easy.

    any recommendations?

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    Would there be more availability with a 50 series 16"? You would be closer to stock diameter, should give you better performance all around than the bigger diameter with everything except MPG.

    EDIT: Lots of choices if you go with a 50 or 55 series, including Yokohoma S Drives, Bridgestone Potenza, BF Goodrich G Force (from discount tires direct search)

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    There used to be some info on the wiki for tire wheel combinations... I don't know what happened to it though.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster View Post
    There used to be some info on the wiki for tire wheel combinations... I don't know what happened to it though.
    I used to use one called Minty Lamb (!) but it seems to have gone. I have used this one - https://www.discounttiredirect.com/d...nfoTireMath.do

    I am currently running 195/65-15 Michelins on the 4A which replaced 185/80-15 Hankooks on 6" rims. The steering is marginally heavier and I feel the ride is worse. The gearing is about 7% lower. When I rebuilt the car, a mechanic friend with many years experience of racing and rallying warned against wide tires with the semi-trailing arm rear suspension as he felt that the camber change would lift most of the tire off the road, with a sudden loss of adhesion. Fun sometimes but not always!
    Rocky

    67 Triumph TR4A
    95 Holden Commodore 355 V8 (The Rocket)
    09 Peugeot 407 V6 Diesel Coupe

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    i think he's totally wrong about tire lift. we've been running 215/60R15 with no issues. my son has won/placed in several autocrosses, and we drive that car hard. never any loss of adhesion, unless its wet!

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    You don't state the class in which you have chosen to run and that has a significant impact on your wheel selection options.

    If you elect to run in either one of the "Street Touring" or "Street Prepared" classes, Panasport offers a 15 x 7 and a 16 x 7 but you would probably need to determine the offset that you need and then have the guys in Torrance machine the backside of the wheel accordingly. Even then, if you plan on running in the new "Street" classes which replaced the old "Stock" classes, either of those wheels are out as it is 1 1/2" wider than the stock wheel. I'm not aware of anyone that makes a 16 x 5 1/2, much less one that would meet the "Street" class requirements for offset. As for your current set up, I'm of the opinion that your typical 215 section width tire is a bit too wide for the stock 5 1/2" TR6 wheel. I used to run a TR6 with Texas Region SCCA many years ago in "Stock" and then later in "Street Prepared." I found that a 205/50-15 worked better on the stock wheel than a larger section width tire, but then again this was when you could run "R" tires that had tread wear ratings in the 40 range as opposed to the current minimum of a 200 tread wear rating. Even with an "R" tire, the 215 and 225 section width tires were just too flexy in the sidewalls for my taste and the 225 was really way too wide for even a 6" wheel width, much less the stock 5 1/2" wheel width.

    How much difference one might see with a something other than "R" tires is anybody's guess but my speculation is that I would still find the smaller tire section width/shorter aspect ratio of the 205/50 more favorable than the 215/60. Also bear in mind that the larger rolling diameter of the 215/60 or almost any 16" wheel tire combo for a TR6 would effectively cost you a bit in acceleration as well as increase your unsprung weight at each corner.

    While I can't say that I recommend any wheels these guys carry, they do have one of the better comparators for wheel and tire combinations that I've seen out there:

    https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    your comment on scca is interesting but we just run in the vtr and sometimes jaguar runs. vtr has three classes - stock, modified, and full race. jaguar separates by marque, except their own cars. here is what Richard Good said (he is an engineer, racer, and owner of Goodparts. i do believe he knows what he is talking about.

    The 215 width tires fit nicely on a 7” wheel and should handle a lot better than when mounted on a 5.5” wheel. I have run 215/60R15’s on 15 x 7 zero offset wheels and the tires just cleared the front fenders. I did have the upper fulcrums reversed so the upper control arms were positioned 1/4” inward from original. I use 15 x 7 Konig Rewind alloys on my hill climb car and really like them. You can get a set on e-bay for under $500. To fit them you have to do some grinding on the corners of the upper control arms or they will scrape when you turn to lock. These wheels are also available in 16 x 7 zero offset and the larger rim will clear the control arms better. A 215/55R16 tire is close to the same diameter as the 215/60R15 so it should also fit in the fender and the shorter sidewall should help the handling a little.

    A larger wheel changes the appearance of the car a little but of course that is just a matter of preference. Personally I think 15” look “correct” for the car and 16” are OK but 17” or larger are just not period correct.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    I am familiar with Richard Good, we (Richard Good, along with a couple of SCCA TR6 driving club racers that I know) talked on the phone a few times when Richard was developing his rear disc brake set up for the TR6.

    I guess this is where I am being thrown off, in the first post you state that you have stock TR6 wheels (which are 15 x 5 1/2) and 215/60-15 tires. Now, in your latest post you state that you have a set of 15 x 7 Konig Rewinds and 215/60-15 tires. My position is essentially the same as Richard's in that I had previously stated "As for your current set up, I'm of the opinion that your typical 215 section width tire is a bit too wide for the stock 5 1/2" TR6 wheel." I was being somewhat charitable when I said "a bit too wide." A 215 section width tire on a 7" wide wheel is much more appropriate.

    The issue that you have with the 15" diameter wheels is a lack of high performance tire choices that will keep you in roughly the same rolling diameter range. What you mostly see in an appropriate diameter, section width and aspect ratio are all seasons tires which do not provide the performance level that I would want in a tire used for competition of any sort. Adding insult to injury, there isn't much out there in shorter aspect ratios and that section width in a 15" high performance tire. If you go to a 16" wheel, the selection of high performance tires gets much better and if you want to be serious or perhaps even semi-serious that may be the way to go even if it does mean bumping up the unsprung weight a bit at each corner.

    So there you have it. It's back to the question of where do you want to compromise, how fast do you want to go and how much are you willing to spend.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    I have 205/65-15s on Konig Rewind 15 x 7 in wheels (on my TR250) with Falken Ziex all season "performance" tires. Lookswise, which I know is a matter of preference, I love it, annd judging by the comments I get others do too. As far as performance and autocrossing I wish I had gone with the 16 x 7" and a lower profile summer performance street tire. My local club has three classes similar to VTR, though we developed them separately. It is a multi marwue british club so we get a wide variety of cars, Bugeyes are king, there is also a very fast TR7, and at one time a pretty quick Jensen Healey. My 250, and my driving I supose, run a little behind with the the modified MGAs and MGBs mostly. We have also had v8 and turboed Sprites, a Sunbeam Tiger, my Healey 100 when I used to own it, lots intersting cars. Miata guys and occasional other modern iron can run if they join the club. Many do as they can get more runs for less money than SCCA. Local cub auto- can be great fun.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    the entry that begins with your comment on scca is interresting - above - the second two paragraphs are a direct quote from Richard Good, not my words. i should have put it in italics or quotes or something, sorry.

    for clarity, i'll do it again here:

    "The 215 width tires fit nicely on a 7” wheel and should handle a lot better than when mounted on a 5.5” wheel. I have run 215/60R15’s on 15 x 7 zero offset wheels and the tires just cleared the front fenders. I did have the upper fulcrums reversed so the upper control arms were positioned 1/4” inward from original. I use 15 x 7 Konig Rewind alloys on my hill climb car and really like them. You can get a set on e-bay for under $500. To fit them you have to do some grinding on the corners of the upper control arms or they will scrape when you turn to lock. These wheels are also available in 16 x 7 zero offset and the larger rim will clear the control arms better. A 215/55R16 tire is close to the same diameter as the 215/60R15 so it should also fit in the fender and the shorter sidewall should help the handling a little.

    A larger wheel changes the appearance of the car a little but of course that is just a matter of preference. Personally I think 15” look “correct” for the car and 16” are OK but 17” or larger are just not period correct."

    the above, in italics and quotes, is from Richard Good. my apologies for any confusion.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    Sumton, thanks for the clarification, that explains why I was thrown for a loop over the wheels being used. In any event, not being familiar with the level of competition that you see, tire choice is subjective but my experience with autocross was that we were a pretty competitive bunch and a higher performance tire will help in making sure that you have a competitive set up. It's still pretty much what I said earlier, the selection of high performance tires in 15" is rather limited and essentially non-existent in the section width you are running. Even though I would prefer the lower unsprung weight of a 15' wheel and tire combo, given what I saw when it came to high performance tires availability in 15" and 16" and in your section width, I think accepting the higher unsprung weight of the 16" and having higher performance tires would be the more competitive set up over running the 15 inchers.

    I've loaned a set of 15" Panasports to a neighbor for his kid's Miata for similar reasons. With the SCCA rule changes and the lack of performance tires available in 14", the smaller section width and shorter aspect ratio he runs, the 15" wheels give him a selection of high performance tires to choose from.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumton View Post
    i think he's totally wrong about tire lift. we've been running 215/60R15 with no issues. my son has won/placed in several autocrosses, and we drive that car hard. never any loss of adhesion, unless its wet!
    I doubt that he is totally wrong. He has a long history of successful rallying on dirt and tarmac, including the Targa Tasmania. He was co-driver in the car that won the first Round Australia Rally. He prepared many of the race winners at Bathurst over the years.

    The IRS TRs first came out with a rounded profile 165/80-15 tire. US market TR6s had 185/70-15s. The camber change over full travel is not quite as bad as a VW Beetle but it is very noticeable. Most modern suspensions keep the camber change to a minimum and modern tires are designed to stay flat on the road. You may get away with a tire that is nearly 30% wider than original, if you are on a flat surface at relatively low speed with stiff springs and antiroll bars. For fast road use, I'll stick with narrow, and the better ride that higher sidewalls and lower unsprung weight give me.
    Rocky

    67 Triumph TR4A
    95 Holden Commodore 355 V8 (The Rocket)
    09 Peugeot 407 V6 Diesel Coupe

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    i'm sure you are thinking of the swing axle spitfires and GT6's. none of the TR's, from the solid axle TR2, TR3, TR4, through the IRS TR4a, TR5, TR250, and TR6 exhibit tire lift. been to too many autocrosses, and never seen a single one of those cars lift a wheel. they slide and spin out, but they don't lift wheels. modified, stock, whatever, doesn't happen.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumton View Post
    i'm sure you are thinking of the swing axle spitfires and GT6's. none of the TR's, from the solid axle TR2, TR3, TR4, through the IRS TR4a, TR5, TR250, and TR6 exhibit tire lift. been to too many autocrosses, and never seen a single one of those cars lift a wheel. they slide and spin out, but they don't lift wheels. modified, stock, whatever, doesn't happen.
    No, I'm not talking about swing axles or wheel lift. I'm talking about tire lift, or jacking, where the contact patch is reduced. When that happens,"they slide and spin out"! Or to quote Kas Kastner "the weight of the car tends to roll over the tire and this reduces the tire patch and the car then oversteers". If you have ever jacked your TR4A-6 up, you will see the camber change that I am talking about. My Commodore also has semi trailing suspension, and that gets a lot more sideways when you add 360hp to camber change. Later models had an extra link to reduce this.

    My point is that a very light car with not much power and an unsophisticated suspension does not need very wide tires. They may in fact be detrimental to the handling.
    Rocky

    67 Triumph TR4A
    95 Holden Commodore 355 V8 (The Rocket)
    09 Peugeot 407 V6 Diesel Coupe

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    most people who put different, wider wheels on also modify their suspensions. ergo the lack of lift

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    The IRS TRs in stock form do not handle very well, front and rear sway bars do wonders. They limit lean and therefore geometry changes, and also the rear axle jacking or binding you can get with the sliding splines.

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    Re: new wheels and tires

    Quote Originally Posted by Sumton View Post
    72 TR6, highly modified. tires are getting worn, found a cracked wheel over the weekend; i think its time to upgrade.

    we want 16" wheels and something close to 215/60R16 tires. (currently we have stock TR6 wheels and 215/60R15). i've looked at the charts and done some calculations; the one inch won't affect the speedo accuracy too much.

    its tough searching for wheels; i found one place where i can get some good qulaity 16's, but that's it. 15's would be easy.

    any recommendations?
    Hi we are currently building brand new sets of 5.5 x 16's and 6 x 15's. These should be built and up on our site early next week if you're interested?

    www.wellerwheels.com
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