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Thread: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

Discuss the Austin Healey Sprite and the MG Midget. Two different but similar cars sometimes referred to collectively as the Spridget.

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    Yoda Jim_Gruber's Avatar
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    1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    One of Bugsy II's 1/4 Ell2015 26 15 Spring IMG_1233.jpg2015 26 15 Spring IMG_1235.jpg2015 12 26 Spring IMG_1232.JPG2015 26 15 Spring IMG_1237.jpgiptics came out without a struggle from the Spring Box, everything is clean as a whistle. The PS on the other hand is a pig that I needed to drill out to extricate. I marinated in Evaporust for the past 4 days and pulled it out and placed in my trusty vice. A couple of sharp blows with my 5 lb sledge and a punch allowed me to remove/punch out the centering bolt fairly easily. Now I need to remove the two rear Spring Bolts. I needed to drill out the centers to remove the head of the bolt. Now I need some advice as how to get these the rest of the way apart and save the spring. The springs are usable and can be cleaned up if I can get this basta_d apart. Advice guys.

    Have Drill press with machinist vice and could drill out but I fear I could end up drilling off center as I get through the stack. Other thought was getting the other end apart and somehow wedging spring apart from the two bolts that are rusted in place. Need some cogitation on next steps. Here are a few pics.

    If I get my Dremel with a cutting Blade under the Spring Plate can I cut it and then Drive out the bolts after some more marinating in EvapoRust? Thinking that may be my next step.

    Get the leaves apart, Sand, Etch, POR-15 - Black, Graphite Paste between leaves and then bolt back together.

    Spring Bushing, Any easy way to extract, marinate the other end of the spring and then hacksaw blade to cut or put in a press.

    Kudos again to EvapoRust for helping to get the centering bolt out.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Darth Vader Rut's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim,
    Use your angle grinder or sawzall to cut the head off and drive it thru. I sand blasted mine and primed with self etching primer followed by Slipplate. If I had to do it again I'd just blast and paint with Slipplate and go with the dark grey look. It preserves the springs and lubricates them so they won't squeak...since its dry it doesn't attract dirt and grit.
    Rut
    https://www.slipplate.com
    Rut, '60 Bugeye, '70 MGB, '62 TR4, '66 TR4a IRS, '67 TR4a IRS, '68 TR4a IRS, '72 TR6

    When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they didn't understand life. John Lennon


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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Rut do you mean cut the Spring Plate head off of the nut slide. Since these bolts are threaded into the Spring Plate thinking that will become a sacrificial piece O may need to cut the top Spring Plate in half so I can drive out one side at a time.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Darth Vader Rut's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim,
    You will be replacing the 2 spring plates and the 2 bolts, so cut off whichever end is easiest. The only thing you want to save are the spring leaves and clamps...you will replace the bushings, spring plate, bolts, etc. You can wire brush or blast them in prep for paint/graphite...I even used a sander on the sides to clean up the pitting.
    Rut
    Rut, '60 Bugeye, '70 MGB, '62 TR4, '66 TR4a IRS, '67 TR4a IRS, '68 TR4a IRS, '72 TR6

    When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they didn't understand life. John Lennon


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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Sounds like a plan for tomorrow morning. And then if time allows a little spot weld cutting.

    So anyone got a source for the small U Bolt Clamps that go on the spring leaves. I know they aren't in the VB Catalog, MOSS? AH Spares?
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Hi Jim. I did exactly what Rut said. Punch out the locating bolt. The spring plates should be replaced, and the bolts that hold them together as well. When I put mine back together I lined everything up and taped the spring plate in place so that I could get the bolts lined up through the bottom of the spring box.

    The small clamps are just strap steel--they are fastened to the top leaves with a short stud that is peened into place but that's it. If you are going to replace those clamps you will have to make them. I replaced the bushings that the bolts at the bottom go through with some from the hardware store.

    As far as the rear U-bolts and plates are concerned, I bought some Seachoice Square U-Bolts, 2-1/16" x 3 3/8" from Amazon--they are heavily galvanized, although the legs are too long and the amount that is threaded is too short. I just cut the threads longer with a die and cut them off to the appropriate length. I bought some 3/4 x 3/16 bar stock and made the clamping plates with it.

    I could also not find the locating bolts with the correct rounded head, so I turned them on the lathe (any excuse to use the lathe! ).

    I torched the spring eye bushings out. Makes a little smoke but once the rubber gets soft they push right out.

    For finishing I used PB blaster to help loosen the and a wire brush in a hand grinder to clean them, although mine were not pitted at all, washed them in mineral spirits, and painted them with EZ Slide paint from Tractor Supply. I painted the bottoms, tops, and sides with black enamel.

    Good luck--I was thrilled that the back end of the car doesn't squeak anymore!

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Cool I'll check out those clamps. Thanks again.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Jedi Warrior Nelson's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim you should check out the place I got most of my hardware from. It is The Bolt Depot. They have that size square u-bolts for $2.97 as compared to Amazon at 7.78. Almost all of my nuts, bolts and screws came from them.
    Nelson
    Original owner '62 Mk 2 Sprite aka Little Mo

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Thanks Nelson. I also found that Frogeye Spares in UK has a bunch of the small fiddly bits needed.i'll check out Bolt Depot. Thanks.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim,
    Make sure you buy the correct grade of fastener...the last thing you want is for a suspension or brake bolt to let go under stress. Whether it's necessary or not I like to move up a grade when possible so the ham fisted mechanic working on my car (me) has a little extra security.
    Rut
    Rut, '60 Bugeye, '70 MGB, '62 TR4, '66 TR4a IRS, '67 TR4a IRS, '68 TR4a IRS, '72 TR6

    When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they didn't understand life. John Lennon


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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Safety Fast!
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim--checked out Frogeye Spares when I was doing this, and thought 25 for a U-bolt was crazy. I got mine from Amazon $3.25 with two day delivery.

    The locating pin they are showing looks more like a carriage bolt, which personally I don't think would work very well, and does not match the original design. But maybe what's in the photo is not what they are selling.

    You will notice that the original that does two things. It holds the spring pack together when you shoving the pack in the springbox and
    the cylindrical head on the bottom fits in a hole on in the springbox. When the pack is in the right place you shove the bolts through the bottom up through the spring pack, which is probably obvious. What might be missing here is that there is some horizontal play that makes this difficult--the springbox is somewhat wider than the spring pack--so if that cylindrical end doesn't drop in the hole you are not going to be able to locate it correctly.

    Just my .02 cents. I just turned down the hex head of a grade 8 bolt for this. Took about five minutes. The nut, incidentally, fits between the slots of the spring plate.

    Also i supported the back end of the spring with a floor jack when I was installing this.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Guys would something like this work for 1/4 Elliptics. I see two types of clamps which could replace the clamps that are on the spring presently. These come in 1 3/4" and 2" widths/ Spring appears to measure 1 7/8" so guessing a 2" clip would work or do I need to go to some sort of U Bolt Setup. I see two different types, those with a flat plate and nuts and those with a Horizontal Bolt that runs under the spring holding the sides together. Leaf Spring Clip Strap s-l400.jpg
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim--just to make sure we're clear--the U-bolt I am referring to is the one that clamps the spring in front of the bushing.

    As far as using a u-bolt to replace the straps, it somehow needs to be fastened to the leaf spring, otherwise it will just slip off toward the rear. The spring clip you are showing is only 14 gauge--I am not sure that is thick enough.

    Are your original straps badly rusted? If not I would just clean and reuse them. They are still fastened to the leaves, correct?

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    I'll take some pics of the clamps tomorrow. So much for best laid plans. Nothing got done to Bugsy today. 14 for dinner took priorities and I couldn't convince Colleen I just needed 30 minutes in the garage today. I'll take pics tomorrow night of the clamp.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    2016 01 01 IMG_2625.jpg2016 01 01 IMG_2627.jpgA couple of more days for Spring in Evaporust. I used the angle grinder to cut the top of the Spring Plate Bolt off and flush with the top Spring mounting plate. With Spring firmly in vise. I was able to use a cold chisel and a 5 lb sledge against the lip that sticks out around the side of the top spring plate. A couple of good smacks on each side to keep things moving evenly and the spring plate began to move. Leaves began to separate as the bolts for the spring plate began to move past the leaves 1/4", 1/2", keep pounding, 1" and all of a sudden all the leaves were free. Yeah. Other spring is in Evaporust now to free up the centering bolt, a project for tomorrow morning.

    This question was asked - "Are your original straps badly rusted? If not I would just clean and reuse them. They are still fastened to the leaves, correct?" In the two pics you can see the straps I am referring to. First Set Pic is of Spring I just took apart, 2nd pic is a set of 10 leaf Springs I acquired for a very good price but I don't want to use if I can find Clamps/Straps that hold the spring leaves together in the middle. Would a real Spring Shop have these type of banding clamps. Plan is to call Dayton Spring tomorrow if they are open and drop by to show them what I am looking for. If they sell or can restrap for a few bucks after painting and cleanup I'm good.

    Next step get the other one apart after driving out the centering bolt. Use the heat wrench to remove/burn out the rear bushing, wire wheel everywhere, anti rust / POR-15, paint leaves with SlipPlate, reassemble with new straps, nuts, clean up U Bolts and see if they are salvageable, new set of Straps from Strapping Lab and new bumpers, bushings for Radius Arms.

    On to the Rear End. Buddy has a 3.9 Pumpkin available which will go well with my 5 speed. Swap axles for a set on EN-17's in my garage. Swap in 3.9 pumpkin. Wire Wheel and clean up the rear end, New Rear Wheel Bearings, Thanks for the tip on the Subaru Sealed Bearings who ever posted, new seals, install upgraded backing plates to match 3/4" Master, Shoes, Wheel cylinders, Modify E-Brake Rod and have it ready as a bolt on sub - assembly.

    All in a days work.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Jim
    Ok--here's the confusion. The clamps that you have pictured don't look like mine. Mine have a U-shaped piece of strap iron, maybe 3/16" by 1", that is riveted to the top leaf. The legs of the U run down the sides of the spring pack and are fastened together around the bottom leaf with a bolt. That bolt runs through a bushing that is simply a round tube that seems to have been formed out of sheet metal. I wish I had a photo--it must be on my computer at work.

    So, I don't have an answer to your question--they must have changed the design at some point. Maybe someone else can help!

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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    If you look at the pictures in MOSScatalog the original design is just as you described. Yes design was indeed changed. OK that resolves my confusion. Thinking if I take to a real spring shop they may be able to help. Looking on line I do see some design for spring retainers/clamps but they are not the correct width. It may be possible to fabricate a strap in the correct width but as someone commented the stuff I see commercially available is may from 14ga steel and may not be heavy enough. I'll keep looking and check out the Spring shop as well.thanks.
    Jim Gruber - Apollo Beach, FL
    Bugsy I - '68 Sprite w BE Bonnet - Gone but not forgotten
    Bugsy IV - '60 Bugeye - 1,275+.040 and a 5-Speed - CA Car - 2nd Owner from new - 10/12 Painting done, reassembly, cutting, and buffing in progress.

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    Darth Vader Rut's Avatar
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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    I wish I had a better picture than this, but I hope it helps.
    Rut
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    Rut, '60 Bugeye, '70 MGB, '62 TR4, '66 TR4a IRS, '67 TR4a IRS, '68 TR4a IRS, '72 TR6

    When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down 'happy'. They told me I didn't understand the assignment, and I told them they didn't understand life. John Lennon


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    Re: 1/4 Elliptics- Getting the Bast__rd Apart

    Thanks, Rut. Yes, mine are like yours, and the same as those shown in the Moss catalog. Sorry Jim, I wish I could be more helpful.

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