TR2/3/3A '56 TR3 St 15000+ should have disc brakes... Right?

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wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Aug 30, 2015

• #1

Contemplating getting back to trs with the purchase of a 3 (will be my third). The one I am looking at is in pieces (lots of them) and is showing as a post 15000 production, but the photos look like drums in front and back...

i have read in other posts that post 13000 should have the discs in the front.

Thoughts?

 

CJD

Yoda

Offline

• Aug 31, 2015

• #2

From the judging guide:

The TR2 and early TR3s are fitted with Lockheed drum brakes on all four wheels. The clutch/brake master cylinder
assembly is characterized by cylinders and a common reservoir contained in an integral unit. Service to one system
required service to both. Inspection of the C/B master cylinder assembly:
* Cover plate and unit should not be painted
* Filler cap should be black.
* Brake and clutch lines should not be painted with color (should be galvanized or painted galvanized)
* Boots fitted should be accordion type.
* Slave cylinder different from Girling sytems; is short, fat, and rounded.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Late TR3,Early TR3A TS13046:TS34310 Girling system introduction
TS20310... Restrictor value added, brake line change.
TS22530... LH/RH drive reversal plates dropped.
TS33944... Slave spring change - no details.
TS34311... Brake cyl to 5xway line change - no details.
______________________________________________________________________________________
The introduction of the Girling system with front disk brakes resulted in the complete replacement of the
clutch/brake hydraulics assembly. Distinguishing characteristics:
* Fluid reservoir unit is separate, independent from cylinders; painted black; "Clutch" and "Brake"
decals on sides of reservoirs. A red and blue Girling decal may be on clutch side of reservoir. The
Girling decals may be fitted although they are believed to have been discontinued in 1957.
* C/B cylinder output is straight up to line connector.
* C/B cylinder line adapter is required -- no details.
* C/B push rod connection to pedal assembly made with threaded clevis pin.
* Pedal adjustment bolts are mounted in the front plate of assembly mounting bracket.
* 5-way connector added to frame (passenger side).
* Clutch slave cylinder is longer and thinner than Lockheed cylinder; mounted with bleed port at top;
two styles of support rods can be fitted: one has L turn, the other has a simple angle bend.

If it has drums, it should also have the one-piece master cylinder. The disc brakes switched to the split MC with the can reservoir.

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #3

Of course, any collection of pieces may be from more than one car. The last one I bought even included some MGA pieces!

(PS, not that any further confirmation is needed, but TS13571L is a disc brake car.)

 

mgedit

Jedi Knight

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #4

My 56 is drums all round, and as Randall says, when you buy a car in boxes you usually end up with extra parts of unknown origin and worse still parts that are missing and in my case difficult to track down. Cheers, Mike

 

OP

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wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #5

Thanks for the confirmation - Its one of a number of questions I will be asking the owner -
Cheers,
Kerry

 

OP

W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #6

Here is a shot that was confusing me...

BTW, mgedit, we may have met in the past, I had the Salvador Blue 3 in the OVTC - about 10-12 years ago... Cheers,
Kerry

 

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TR3TR6

Jedi Warrior

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #7

Kerry, I'm sure you know that this project is not for the faint of heart, my biggest concern would be missing parts. I think I would take a lot of close up pictures to try to figure out what might be missing and what will have to be replaced. Good luck.

 

OP

W

wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #8

yeah, I would only attempt b/c I have some experience with 3s and I have some bolstered confidence as I am just finishing a frame off fj40 for my kids now... I have asked questions re gauges etc and have assumed motor is seized. I want to go w front discs though and although I think I can do a conversion with the support of this forum, I worry about sourcing parts in a economic manner; cross border stuff is challenging as our dollar has tumbled in recent months...

 

M

mallard

Luke Skywalker

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #9

The drums and suspension in the picture do not look like anything from a TR3.

 

CJD

Yoda

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• Aug 31, 2015

• #10

Just looked closely...

The rear axle has wire wheel adapters, but the front suspensions have the very early TR2 wire wheel hubs...like before they introduced the adapters. The suspension is definitely TR2-3. But the holes drilled in the drums are not factory.

So...the front hubs you have are very rare and hard to find, but they are not original to your TR3. Thus the front drums...not original to the car, which should have discs.

The door in the pic has no outside handle...so likely also a TR2 door. Second door is panelled with non original tuck and roll.

Apron is early small mouth TR3.

You do realize there is no frame?? Kinda important to the build.

The engine is post TS8997E...so TR3 or 3a.

That's all I can make out at a glance...

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

Offline

• Aug 31, 2015

• #11

CJD said:

The door in the pic has no outside handle...so likely also a TR2 door.

Click to expand...

Or not. The exterior door handles didn't come in until TR3A (except for the ultra-rare GT option).

You do realize there is no frame?? Kinda important to the build.

Click to expand...

Sure looks like a frame to me, leaning against the wall. You might take a look at it to see if it has the mounting tabs for the lines to the front calipers. They aren't quite the same as the tabs for the lines to the front drums (and my early disc braked car has both sets of tabs). Sorry I don't have a better photo handy, but you can see part of the disc brake tab in the upper LH corner of this shot

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Sep 1, 2015

• #12

Another thing to check is how many bolts hold the rear brake backing plates to the axle. The brakes and axle housing both changed when the disc brakes were introduced, the later axle has 6 bolts while the earlier axle only has 4. Since it appears to have the wire wheel adapters, most likely it is the later axle.

Parts for the disc brake setup aren't too hard to come by; so I doubt that will be any serious problem. Most likely Marv will have what you need. Having owned both, I'd say the disc brakes are far better than the drums; so that is the way I would go no matter what is original. The front suspension is the same (including the vertical link), so you'll just need the disc brake hubs, calipers, mounting bracket and so on. It's possible to use the early one piece master cylinder with disc brakes but you have to be careful to keep the reservoir topped off. Better to use the later setup (which has a larger reservoir since the calipers "consume" fluid as the pads wear).

 

OP

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wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Sep 1, 2015

• #13

You guys are great, thanks. I will talk to the owner tonight and get some more insights, although I understand he acquired the pile of parts as is, so we will see how much I can pull from him regarding the history. It's a drive for me to get to the car, so for now I will have to mostly rely on pictures and talking to him.
The frame, by the way, is included and is leaning against the wall in the above photo. It has a crimp in the lateral support member (the tube under the passenger seat) and has a bent lateral support bar just behind it as well, but the sill in the previous photo shows no damage (BTW, I don't remember my past 3s having that extra bar there) - I'll need to measure to see how bad it is. Again might point to a collection of parts from a couple of vehicles... Cheers,
Kerry

 

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CJD

Yoda

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• Sep 1, 2015

• #14

This is a TR2 frame, but my TR3A frame also had the flat plate. You will have to do some alignment checking when you repair that frame. The plate is usually twisted slightly...but the outrigger tubed needs to be straight.

 

M

mallard

Luke Skywalker

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• Sep 1, 2015

• #15

My eyes must be failing me. I thought the control arms looked correct , but it looked like they were connected to some sort of tube, must have been one of the shocks leaning against them. And John how you could see the front hubs clearly I don't know. Kerry I'm sorry about the misleading information.

 

OP

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wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Sep 2, 2015

• #16

No worries Keith - its all good. The seller took some 60 pictures for me last night so I am now going through. The rear axle is correct, with 6 bolts, the front brakes are not, but he knows someone who will trade for discs; I didn't get the number on the motor, but understand it is not the correct one (I know the numbers don't match exactly, so may eventually find out how far out it is - it is also assumed to be seized). Tub has good panels, but a fair bit of internal rust (joints, floors) and the frame is exactly 35" in front of that crimp suggesting at least one of the frame measures near there is exactly to spec. Gages are all present, temp is not original, rad looks perfect for some reason, other major components are there as well. Now it just comes down to whether or not this is too big of a project for me and price - I expect to be fairly distracted at work today...

 

CJD

Yoda

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• Sep 2, 2015

• #17

You can't see the front hubs, but there are no bolts holding the wire adapter on, so they have to be hubs with the built in adapter... Or "integral" hubs. They are worth much more than an entire set of discs...so you should get more than a 1:1 on the trade!

 

Marvin Gruber

Yoda

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• Sep 2, 2015

• #18

Amen to what john said. TR2 folks would like to have those parts for their wire wheel set ups.

marv

 

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wifegonnakillme

Jedi Hopeful

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• Sep 7, 2015

• #19

Bought it! In for $3000 CAD and it includes an overdrive transmission. I wont actually see it for probably a month, the owner has been gracious enough to continue to store it while I try and clear my kids fj40 from the garage. I am pretty stoked.

Re the front hubs - there is almost no chance I will use these, I am planning on driving this car a fair bit in the end and will not be using (or maintaining) spokes - I would be very pleased to hear your opinions on what their value is...

Cheers,
Kerry

 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P

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• Sep 7, 2015

• #20

wifegonnakillme said:

Re the front hubs - there is almost no chance I will use these, I am planning on driving this car a fair bit in the end and will not be using (or maintaining) spokes - I would be very pleased to hear your opinions on what their value is...

Click to expand...

Depends a lot on condition, IMO. If the splines are badly worn, they won't be worth much. There probably is a way to restore worn splines, but it's not likely to be cost effective.