No LBCs in the UK????

I've just returned from a two week trip in England and Scotland. We were all over the place, from London to Bath to Edinburgh and back. We saw a lot of highways. Sadly, I saw no classic Triumphs and only one MG in my journeys. Not a single Triumph!

In London, there were plenty of classic Mini Coopers. Many '60s and '70s model Coopers were nicely restored, some were in tatters. I saw at least ten classic MGs, mostly BGTs. I also saw a good number of new MGs (MGFs, etc.), not all that attractive in my opinion. And, there were new MINI's practically everywhere, and lots of the new, miniscule "Smart" cars (those things would sell like hotcakes here, I think).

I also saw some gorgeous, restored Jaguars, a perfect XK-120 and a couple of lovely '60s saloons. In Bath Spa, I saw a neat, race-modified MG Midget, very nicely done and zooming around the streets. But that was about it for LBCs in England and Scotland. Zilch. Not one, single solitary Triumph. I was very disappointed.

In all fairness, however, I don't see too many old U.S. cars from the same period ('60s-'70s) on the roads here, either. But, it's was still disappointing to see so few Triumphs and MGs remaining in their home country.

In old London town, maybe Triumphs and MGs have slowly faded away, or maybe they've been gone for awhile. Call me nostalgic, or just naive, but I expected more! Oh well, at least we have them here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif

It would be interesting to get a view from a resident of GB.
I left there about eight years ago and felt that there were a lot of classics to be seen,many used daily.Perhaps less over the winter when there is salt everywhere.If it was only recently you were there,then it's just the end of winter!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Curtis
PS. very warm here though,just off for a run in the Healey.

Yeah, my same experience in Ireland a few years ago.
I saw one MGB and a few older English Fords.
I have noticed that some Brit magazine advertise British sports cars that have been "re-exported" and converted to RHD.....I know most of the classic Brit sports cars were sent to North America.
The road seems flooded with small Japanese and European cars, especially small diesels.
I was sort of interested in the new "3 Liter cars" (the EU is pushing cars that go 100 KM on 3 Liters....about 78 MPG in our terms).
The 1.2L, three-cylinder VW Lupo turbo-diesel was kind of neat...that is the most popular "3 Liter" car, I think.
But it does seem funny that a classic British roadster is much more likely to be spotted in New Jersey than it is in the UK!

Last time I was back home there was a reasonable sprinkling of MGBs and Midgets in the south London suburbs.
You know, Triumphs never were as popular in the UK.

Hello all,

the most common classic cars in my area are, generally in order of numbers, Morris Minor, MGB, MG Midget and not many others seen regularly. Roger you say "Triumphs never were as popular in the UK.". You may be refering to the TR range, but Triumphs were very popular in the UK. I drive my 2000 every day and until just a few years ago they were very common. Sadly, these undervalued cars, because they are so expensive to restore properly, are much rarer than they were. My near neighbour has a Herald, used every day.
Surprisingly, 60's Minis are rarely seen on the roads. However I saw an MG TF the other morning on my way to work,that was an unusual sighting.

Alec

I have just realized where they all are. they must be in the motoring magazines we buy as they seem to be made up with 80% adverts of motor traders. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Curtis

I'm originaly from the Northwest UK, I can tell you that there must be all of 30 days a year where the driver of a convertible stands a reasonable chance of not getting soaked through. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Hardly a wonder that there aren't many LBC sports convertibles seen flying around the roads over there. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nopity.gif

I suspect that there are two reasons for the lack of LBC's in GB:

First, as I understand it, all vehicles are subject to stringent Ministry of Transportation inspections annually, and pay a "road tax". Here in Kansas, USA, vehicles over 35 years old pay no tax, and no cars are subject to inspection.

Second, I don't believe that multi-car garages attached to homes are as common in GB as here in the USA. Without shelter, keeping a prized LBC in nice condition would become a constant chore.

Hopefully some of our English members can comment on this.

Phil

The Austin-Healey is the only one that I have good numbers for. From 1957 to 1968, only about 7% of the cars were built for home market. Or about 2,700 out of 37,000 that were built. The other 93% were exported. Some of these cars have been imported back into the UK. Of the 14,600 1953 to 1956 models it is not accurately known what percent were exported. Likely quite a few.
D

Phil, You are right. the problem is that in England it is sooooo expensive to buy a house that even one garage can be a luxury.
Even though prices have risen in France there is still plenty of space and barns to keep cars in!!
There are stringent checks on cars in the UK even when off the road. I have still managed to retain some of my cars on the english plates,although it is strictly not correct.But it is part of the originality.
Curtis

Pmenhusen, you are more or less on the mark in your assumptions about the MOT, road tax, and lack of enclosed storage space.

My parents street, with it's turn of the century row houses (edit: that would be the turn of the 20th century of course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ), has no "off road" parking, except for the two end of street lots (which, even in the UK, tend to be a bit larger) where they've managed to turn the side gardens into driveways.

However, when off-road parking can be obtained, owners can file a SORN (statutary off road notice) with the DVLA to avoid paying road tax. Also, cars manufactured before January 1, 1973 are road tax exempt.

On the MOT, when I was a youngster I would fish the local rag looking for cars with six months or more MOT left on them. Such cars then (mid 1970's) could be had for around £50. I simply drove them until the ticket ran out and then on the final day it was valid, drove them to the scrapyard. I can't tell you how many now sought after classic 1960's cars I did this with. I now, of course, feel very bad about it.

Hello Phil,
you are not entirely accurate about taxation, yes we do have an annual roadworthiness test, without which you cannot legally run a car on the public roads. You cannot re-new your road fund licence ( a paper disc which must be current and displayed on the windscreen) but the road fund licence is free to any motor vehicle built until the end of 1973. So I pay no tax on my two cars, which also run on Classic insurance policies which are generally far cheaper than everyday cars so that is also a bonus. Fuel tax is another issue though and we pay heavily for that with fuel at about
£32 for 40 litres (about 11 gallons US, what's that over $4 per gallon), the majority of that cost is tax.

Curtis, there are no checks on cars not used on the public roads, although there has been rumblings about forcing people who keep old cars on their property to dispose of them. You can imagine what feelings that invokes!

Alec

Piman, we're both wrong on our dates for tax exemption, but I'll split the difference with you:

"All vehicles except buses and lorries used commercially, that were constructed before 1 January 1973 may tax in the 'historic vehicle' tax class."

This is from the direct.gov.uk website.

[ QUOTE ]
... although there has been rumblings about forcing people who keep old cars on their property to dispose of them...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm almost willing to bet that is more aimed at people holding onto unrestored cars that are becoming an "eye sore" to the general public. Then again, I've never been to that area of the world so I could be totally off base with my thoughts.

Piman, I think what I meant to say was that if your car is off the road it is checked inasmuch as you have to declare it.The SORN. You just put it better!!
I have an insurance company that will insure my cars that are British registered,and I put them through the two yearly test here in France.
It's not strictly correct but nice to have the original plates.
The French system is changing soon with a new plate that will stay with the car for its' life. At the moment you have to change if you move out of area.
There is also another system which I won't go into which will mean you can display old style registration plates rather than the modern ones.
I can never understand why some classic cars in England have reflective plates when their age would exempt them.
Curtis

Well Curtis, it seems they will be building some detaches at Brownslane soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Seriously, I think along with the weather bit mentioned the Brits tend to favor home market cars, the Bristol, LD's and early Daimlers and particularly the V8 Saloons along with the SP250 Sports car.Just an opinion thats all.---Keoke

Hi Piman, As I understand it at the present DVLA is under funded and is ciculating propsals to improve their econonics. For instance it seems that a tax is being considered for off road cars in private hands. Don't know how museums and large private collections could fare, but California has a similar bit which is now a one time fee instead of an annual one.---Cheers Keoke

In the 60's and 70's the UK was in tough shape with balance of payments particularly with the US. There was a phrase coined at the time "Export or Die" or something like that.
The Queen even had an award to Industry for Companies exporting vast quantities of anything.
That's one of the reasons so many LBC's were built for the US market compared to the meagre domestic market numbers.

Hello Keoke,
yes that was a proposal but I think has been put on the back burner.
Nunyas, no. it was something 'environmental' I believe. As far as eyesores go, simple, don't look. This was proposed about vehicles kept on private property.

Alec

I read this thread with interest and have to admit that I’ve never seen too many Triumphs on the road in recent years either, yet I know there are loads of them still around. We’re members of The Triumph Sports Six Club, a UK based organization whose membership numbers are in the thousands, the majority of which are in the UK. Every month their magazine has reviews and event recaps and it’s not unusual to see 30 - 50 Triumphs at a smaller regional event, and between 200 – 400 at a national event… so they must be out there somewhere! The TSSC also has a racing championship with three different classes so you’ll find the cars on a track too. When we lived in the UK we attended many an organized event, often meeting up with other owners and forming a convoy to the location, and judging by the articles I read every month, this is still a common occurrence.

As to the question of cars being eyesores in people’s gardens…. there’s two sides to this, as I’ve seen cars that have obviously been parked for many years, as evidenced by the field that has grown up around and very often through them, with no intention whatsoever on the owners part to ever think about “restoring” them or using them for parts. They possibly had good intentions when they brought the car home, but leaving something to rot beyond recognition in a residential neighborhood is not acceptable. The other side of the coin is the person that has no storage or garage room, and has no alternative than to work outside, that, I think, is acceptable as long as they don’t turn their garden into a junkyard.

RG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif