• The Roadster Factory Recovery Fund - Friends, as you may have heard, The Roadster Factory, a respected British Car Parts business in PA, suffered a total loss in a fire on Christmas Day. Read about it, discuss or ask questions >> HERE. The Triumph Register of America is sponsoring a fund raiser to help TRF get back on their feet. If you can help, vist >> their GoFundMe page.
  • Hey there Guest!
    If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource, if you appreciate not having ads pop up all over the place and you want to ensure we can stay online - Please consider supporting with an "optional" low-cost annual subscription.
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this UGLY banner)
Tips
Tips

TR4/4A Tappet wear pattern inspection - normal or not ?

blhazzard

Member
Offline
I have a 67 TR4A with 144k total miles and 50k miles since cam R&R and bottom rebuild.
Took the head off to repair a broken manifold stud (manifold side ports were out (-6 and -23 mil with respect to center port) ... the -23 side is where the manifold bolt broke...

Anyway...
I pulled the tappets out to clean and inspect and have attached pics of the wear pattern.
#1 is forward most tappet and #8 is rear most tappet.

Can anyone comment on the wear pattern ?
Normal ?, Expected ?...
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5054.jpg
    IMG_5054.jpg
    72.7 KB · Views: 137
  • IMG_5058.jpg
    IMG_5058.jpg
    43.7 KB · Views: 133
  • IMG_5060.jpg
    IMG_5060.jpg
    49.6 KB · Views: 123
  • IMG_5061.jpg
    IMG_5061.jpg
    50.8 KB · Views: 123
  • IMG_5062.jpg
    IMG_5062.jpg
    49.4 KB · Views: 121

Darrell_Walker

Jedi Knight
Silver
Country flag
Offline
It doesn't look like they rotated at all in the bores. Either the tapped should be slightly crowned, or the cam slightly angled such that the tappets rotate a bit each time. At least as I under stand it all.
 
OP
B

blhazzard

Member
Offline
It looked like #2 and #8 rotated for a while ... but stopped.
Most of wear pattern look like a mono/bi quasi-stable position...
Looking at how the things is supposed to work I would have expected a round pattern... not this...

These are probably OEM (1967) tappets... Replace them ?

Anyone have any experience with the Moss "lightened tappets" ?
https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=66138
 

Got_All_4

Luke Skywalker
Country flag
Offline
I always thought the originals were the best tappets and there have been lots of problems with soft reproductions. These definitely are turning. Ether too tight in the bore or wrong profile to the cam lobe. Anyway I'd check your cam too and may be some problems there also. You can have the cam and the tappets reground and hardened. I sent mine to Delta Cam Shaft in Tacoma Washington and had repairs to the cam and a new profile ground and close to 15k miles now and no problems. I even auto crossed several times.
 
OP
B

blhazzard

Member
Offline
Got_All_4,
Thanks for the advice.
I have not done a hard look at the cam yet since it and the engine are in the car with just the head off.
Will do...

The engine was pulled and cam was r&r about 45kmi ago due to some odd cam issues.
Need to talk to the PO and review maintenance records.
The bottom was done at that time also..

Thanks again!
 

sp53

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
I live in Tacoma and delta does a lot of cams. I wonder last time I was in there where did all these cams come from. It never dawned on me that people would send stuff to them. I am no expert on cams or lifters, but the lifters I have seen all had an even dished pattern that just had to be flattened out with a resurfacing. In today’s world you could probably seed Delta those pictures and ask them what they think. My take is that the adjustment was too tight or like suggested for some other reason they did not turn and wear evenly.
 

Rut

Obi Wan
Country flag
Offline
Wow, those are some soft lifters! They are beyond repair and I would do 2 things, replace the lifters with some from APT and take a good look at your cam. If the lifters are that worn the cam had to suffer, but to what degree? Delta, like most machine shops can re-profile lifters for pretty cheap, but those are long gone.
Rut
 

TomMull

Darth Vader
Silver
Country flag
Offline
I would not be too concerned about the lifters spinning, once they wear a pattern in the surface they won't tend to spin. My original lifters have little wear but a definite stationary pattern. However, in my experience, yours have way too much wear. I don't think some of the aftermarket lifters and cams are very good. No telling what the metallurgy is like with those lifters so I don't think I'd have them ground and hardened. I would not hesitate to have original lifters done however. I would also buy replacement lifters from one of the cam specialists rather than the "big 3" and the like. Also try some ZDDP oil and 2000 rpm break-in.
Tom
Edit: Here's an original lifter with about the same mileage.lifter.jpg
 
OP
B

blhazzard

Member
Offline
Note the pics may be somewhat deceiving.
While the wear looks bad the wear is barely perceptible to the touch.
The "black" areas are the reflection from the camera.
I was mainly worried about the "shape" of the wear pattern and it implication to cam health.
I am doing a close cam inspection today... well as close as I can without pulling it out.

Everyone ... thanks for the comments.
 
OP
B

blhazzard

Member
Offline
Cam lobe pics..
Pic 1 are bobes for Cyl 1
...
Pic 4 are lobes for Cyl 4

Any comments...I have yet to measure dims of lobes..
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5094.jpg
    IMG_5094.jpg
    55.9 KB · Views: 90
  • IMG_5106.jpg
    IMG_5106.jpg
    50.7 KB · Views: 84
  • IMG_5115.jpg
    IMG_5115.jpg
    58 KB · Views: 90
  • IMG_5130.jpg
    IMG_5130.jpg
    65 KB · Views: 83

TomMull

Darth Vader
Silver
Country flag
Offline
Cam lobe pics..
Pic 1 are bobes for Cyl 1
...
Pic 4 are lobes for Cyl 4

Any comments...I have yet to measure dims of lobes..

I wonder about the uneven pattern. Was the cam new or reground at the previous teardown? Can you feel the areas that seem discolored? The mic readings should tell the story.
Again here is a spare cam with about the same mileage.
Second comment: you are a much better photographer than I.
P1010047.jpg
 

KVH

Darth Vader
Silver
Country flag
Offline
I put Moss lightened lifters in my car 8 years ago. I've had no problems that I know of--but I sometimes wonder why I'm so easily swayed by catalogue language like"new and improved" or "high performance" or "uprated."

My guess is that a good cam shop would have directed me elsewhere.

At eight years out I do hear a "tapping" sound at idle, and after three tappet adjustments I've failed to eliminate it. I've wondered if it could be a bad lifter. Anyway, brighter folks than me can comment on lightened, new and improved and uprated lifters.
 

Rut

Obi Wan
Country flag
Offline
As it's been said before, does it sound like a typewriter? If so, everything is working like its susposed to...if you have to chase the adjustment you may have cam or tappet wear.
Rut
 

sqbsprite

Jedi Trainee
Country flag
Offline
I am wondering if proper break in procedure was followed with a good cam lube in place. It looks to me like the grind finish on the cam lobes and journals was not very fine. It appears the burnished the lifters leaving the imprint of the lobe surface on the lifter. The cam looks to be harder than the lifter. By the time I tear one down the lifters usually are pitted, so I have not seen this pattern before.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Celtic 77 MGB Tappet breather to Weber downdraft MG 4
S TR2/3/3A tappet assembly Triumph 10
T Modern Oils for Our Flat Tappet Engines Austin Healey 26
T Modern Oils for Our Flat Tappet Engines Spridgets 7
G Tappet Noise Austin Healey 8
M TR2/3/3A Tappet Clearance confusion Triumph 3
Rut Brake adjuster tappet Spridgets 18
HealeyRick Rear Brake Adjuster Tappet Needed Austin Healey 2
T SPQR Tappet adjuster, Click Adjust Austin Healey 1
E Good tappet cover Austin Healey 5
L Simple fix for leaky tappet cover Austin Healey 0
T Oil leaks under carb are - tappet inspection plate Spridgets 6
memphis Tappet Tool Austin Healey 10
M TR2/3/3A TR3 Tappet Triumph 4
AH100M BN2 Tool kit spark plug/tappet feeler gauge Austin Healey 7
KVH Another Tappet Question Triumph 9
vping Tappet cover gaskets - Need help! MG 6
Baz Tappet Inspection MG 7
MadMarx Tappet - flat or domed? that's the question Triumph 5
L Tappet Inspection Austin Healey 8
V TR6 TR6 Flat Tappet Triumph 12
Wana Tappet clatter? Austin Healey 3
vping Tappet cover gaskets and.... MG 1
W TR5/TR250 TC2500 tappet clearances? Triumph 1
Joel Lester TR2/3/3A Do rear leaf springs wear out? Triumph 11
P MGB Tube axle wear MG 3
AUSMHLY BJ8 Laygear Wear Austin Healey 11
A T-Series Arkansas MG Odd Lifter Wear MG 12
M TR2/3/3A Steering Worm Gear Wear Evaluation Triumph 6
J TR2/3/3A Oil Pump Wear Triumph 5
K TR2/3/3A Ring and Pinion Wear? Triumph 11
T TR2/3/3A Propeller Shaft Spline Wear Triumph 3
KVH TR4/4A Clutch Pressure Plate Wear Triumph 1
S TR2/3/3A Front end alignment and tire wear Triumph 9
C TR4/4A Diff gear wear Triumph 10
M First Gear Wear Austin Healey 4
RAC68 Axle Bearing Wear and Imbalanced Drums Austin Healey 3
TRclassic3 TR2/3/3A Extreme tire wear Triumph 6
RickB Front tire wear - insides Spridgets 14
T Timing Chain Wear? Austin Healey 5
K TR4/4A How to check TR3/4A Trans for wear? Triumph 3
glemon Opinion/Experence Rocker Shaft Wear Triumph 6
D Rear Tire Wear Austin Healey 13
glemon Valve Adjustment/Wear Triumph 4
M Wear a helmet Triumph 49
Darrell_Walker Timing chain tensioner wear Triumph 8
G excess wear on outer edge of front tires Austin Healey 13
T This is why you wear protection Spridgets 11
T This is why you wear protection..... Triumph 14
TimK Uneven wear on Healey front disk brake pads Austin Healey 2

Similar threads

Top